Mary Sues?

[Parker Gabriel]

Taking the test with the character of Christopher Thomas Robinson, in my Star Trek: Sovereign stories, I notched a score of 17--that made him a non-Stew, but rather high-scoring for that group.

[Colin]

I will Fess up here: the Ambulanceman I wrote into 'Crisis' was based very closely on my father who, at the time was actually working for Kent Ambulance Service. Although I gave the character Dad's christian name, I couldn't bring myself to give him the same Surname - I still do not know why

[chrisbishop]

I'm not sure if characters you write in stories based on people surrounding you are considered as Mary Sues. I know lots of writers do that. If they're not Mary Sues, I wonder if there's a designation for such characters?

[Colin]

Well, for 'Edge of Armageddon' (the current working title), I haven't used any real people

[Parker Gabriel]

I don't see any possible way to incorporate any real people into the Captain Scarlet mythos, as I said in a previous post on this subject. As I also pointed out in the post, the Paul Metcalfe who eventually becomes Captain Scarlet won't exist for at least another twenty years, if at all.

[Colin]

People in the public eye, such as Film Stars, I agree, but just an ordinary person, such as the Ambulanceman I wrote into 'Crisis' was actually not that difficult - and my father would have been 135 during the events of CS

[Parker Gabriel]

People in the public eye, such as Film Stars, I agree, but just an ordinary person, such as the Ambulanceman I wrote into 'Crisis' was actually not that difficult - and my father would have been 135 during the events of CS

He sees a possible way; that way, however, rings false to me.

Them do be M$.02; yours may differ.

[Captain Indigo]

Why would it be so impossible to borrow a real person for a CS story? 99.99 ad infinitum percent of people in the CS universe, canon or otherwise are just normal human beings, such as Colin's ambulanceman. Let's face it - the human race is not likely to change all that much in the next 59 years, and neither is that particular job description.

Let's face it, Parker - for some people here, 2068 is within our life expectancy...

[Kambei]

All authors, whether professional or fan, draw on their life experiences and people they have known to populate their works. Some even have people in mind when they write characters. Writers like Terry Pratchett and Douglas Adams spring to mind here. I know that Terry Pratchett, and also Harry Harrison of Stainless Steel Rat fame, have done charity auctions where people have bid to be included as characters in their books. Even some of Charles Dickens' characters were caricatures of well known people of the time. It goes back as far as ancient Greece, where playwrights would put both dead and contemporary people into plays. Aristophanes: The Frogs is a prime example of this.

I think what distinguishes these from a Mary-Sue is that the former are paying tribute or homage to someone they know, or including, sometimes unintentionally, attributes of someone close to them. A Mary-Sue character is basically wish-fulfilling fantasy by the author, putting themselves in the place of an often perfect character and acting out their fantasies.

[hazel]

People in the public eye, such as Film Stars, I agree, but just an ordinary person, such as the Ambulanceman I wrote into 'Crisis' was actually not that difficult - and my father would have been 135 during the events of CS

He sees a possible way; that way, however, rings false to me.

Them do be M$.02; yours may differ.

That's a very contentious statement, Parker. Are you implying that you NEVER use ANY attributes from any real person in your characters? I find that pretty well impossible to believe.

[Brindlewhite]

I'm not sure if characters you write in stories based on people surrounding you are considered as Mary Sues. I know lots of writers do that. If they're not Mary Sues, I wonder if there's a designation for such characters?

I was chatting to someone who writes fan fiction about this and if it is any help she was saying that if you use the character of someone you know it is known as insert and if it is you yourself you are putting into the story is it just known as self insert

BW

[Marion]

I haven't ever consciously set out to portray a real life person in a story, although I have based characters on people I've known - certainly when it comes to giving a description of them - although one fictional character may have several different 'real people' in them, to hopefully create a new and yet, realistic individual.
I also use events from other people's lives that I know about - I don't mean for the main plots (which I have real trouble with) but as small sub-plots or incidents that (hopefully) reveal something about the fictional individual. I don't ever describe anything exactly as it happened, of course, because I see that as a real breach of confidence, but I do use real life as a 'template' if you like.
I really don't see how you could write characters (canon or of your own invention) without reference to a real person or people. I know I can't. Although I suppose blending aspects of various characters together can, in some ways, be said to be inventing a new character...?

[Sage]

I completely agree with you there Marion.
There are only so many aspects of human nature you can cobble together to make a complete character. Obviously you wouldn't be literal, that's the slippery slope to a Mary Sue; but then a good writer knows better (unless it's a deliberate parody, but that has its conventions too).

For the most part the CS characters' appearances were based on real people anyway, and yeah of course Sean Connery doesn't still look like he did in Doctor No. So there's nothing wrong or unrealistic about taking a trait here and interest there to round them out.
Or even really abstract examples, like my brother has the same height as Blue; so I know the grief of finding well fitting trousers or when and by how much he'd have to duck his head in an old building (and how annoying it'd be to have Scarlet mention it like he hadn't already noticed. )

It's a good thing I really, I think. Being familar with something like that you can write with greater conviction and emotional impact.

[Carrie]

Sage said:

Being familar with something like that you can write with greater conviction and emotional impact.

You hit the nail on the head there, Sage. We write about what we 'know', and for characters, that is the traits and experiences that we have within ourselves and the people we see around us, whether friends or aquaintances, or even people from the TV! A smart author will not 'create' a character with the same set of characteristics or experiences of a single individual, but will mix and match traits from various people as required, (Otherwise, we might be sued... )

As real people tend not to be perfect, (unlike Mary-Sues... ) using real people's little quirks and flaws makes for a much more rounded and believable character.

[RhapsodyAngel8]

I agree – I don’t think I could even begin to create a character from scratch without some (well, many!) points of reference to character traits I have come across before in other individuals. I simply don’t have the experience to be able to do that, nor would I want to. I know that I have only just started writing fanfiction (and make character gaffes), but I find this to be very much the case already. Human behaviour, characteristics etc. are so complex – and wonderfully so – that I would imagine a fictional character devoid of any influence from real people to come across as being rather artificial. For instance, there may be a situation where the character needs to respond in a particular way to some event; being able to draw on how I have seen someone else respond in a ‘similar’ situation gives me a much greater ‘feel’ for how the character should respond - like Sage with her brother and Blue. It may well be that that person’s response/ behaviour might be totally different from what I would imagine, and end up being perfect for the character I’m creating, whereas my imagined ‘reponse’ for the character may be more contrived. While I don’t seek to write the character based entirely on that individual, seeing him/her in my mind’s eye as I write about certain aspects of the fictional character helps a great deal – certainly, some traits from that individual (and others) may well be ‘borrowed’ to some extent and incorporated into my character. For a character to come across as believable – as Marion, Sage and Carrie have so rightly said – what we ‘know’ and have seen/experienced in others is so valuable.

With respect to Colin’s ambulance driver – I’m sorry but I don’t see the problem there, Parker. As long as it’s not blatantly obvious to others, regarding whom the character is based upon (unless that individual wishes to appear in a fanfic, that is! ), it seems sensible to base a character such as this upon what/whom one knows instead of having to make something up.