Mary Sues?

[Elentari]

The first time I read Paula Smith's story I just about choked.

It might only be about a page long but I thought it was hilarious.

[Parker Gabriel]

I'm a member of another group, unrelated to Captain Scarlet and concerned mainly with Star Trek: The Voyages Of The Enterprise, which deals with the voyages of the U.S.S. Sovereign. Most of my recent fanfic has dealt with its voyages, using the personae of the other members along with my own persona. The net-site is this.

http://www.trekfiction.com/directory/series-SOV_1.html

All the stories include my persona, whose name is Christopher Thomas Robinson, but he's no Marty Stew.

I DO hope the Colonel approves of this.

[Clya Brown]

Speaking personally, I've always found that creating a character of your own is quite a risky thing to do unless you're very careful to make it an interesting character in its own right - and that's difficult if you're basing it either literally on yourself (because most people lead quite humdrum lives) or wish-fulfillingly on yourself (because it's so painfully obvious that that's what you've done). Thinking about it, I imagine Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect from The Hitch-Hikers' Guide to the Galaxy represented the literal and fantasy versions of Douglas Adams' personality respectively - which worked so well because Ford's ever-so-cool attitude to life, the universe and everything was so fabulously offset by poor Arthur's bumbling failure to come to terms with even the first page of it.

Funnily enough, I never once thought of Alan Tracy from "Thunderbirds" as a character to whom the audience was supposed to relate personally until I read through this thread and saw Sage's comment on page 1. He was always simply a pain in the butt as far as I was concerned, even when I watched the series as a child (which is perhaps why I hated the live-action movie so much) but she's absolutely right, of course. Ditto Chris's observation about Wesley Crusher, just above it: I originally loathed that character, though as the series developed I found that I rather came to like him. Such characters must be interesting in their own right if they're going to be accepted. Speaking personally I try to avoid creating them in the first place, because it's easier within a relatively short story to develop existing characters whose names, if not their personalities, are already familiar to most readers. When I do have to create them I tend to base them on characters from other series that are likely to be recognised, so such stories end up as crossovers. Crossovers are risky things to attempt though: you've got to be fairly certain that readers are familiar with both series, because if they're not, you'll create something that's almost incomprehensible unless you fill in a lot of background from the other show - and that intensely irritates people who are familiar with it.

All in all, it depends on your target readership. If it really is purely for your own amusement/wish-fulfillment, obviously you do whatever you like. But if you honestly expect someone else to read and enjoy it too, you have to consider their likely reactions to the characters you've created - and especially one that's based on yourself.

[MMK]

I wrote myself into a story once - as a spoof - but I doubt anyone noticed - except those in the know

BTW I'm in the know! Woo!
(with a little help )

[chrisbishop]

They've been some talks about Mary Sue recently in others thread, so I thought it would be interesting to bumb up this one here for the purpose of those who would like to know more. This thread is very interesting reading, and for those who didn't see it the first time around, I recommand it.

One of our members (thanks, Serena!) found a link some times ago that wasn't posted on this forum. You might find enlightening. This is a test to discover if a character is a Mary Sue or not:

http://ponylandpress.nfshost.com/ms-test.html

You can take it and have fun with it. Some questions might sound like leading ones, and the results are not often all that conclusive, but it does give an insight on some given characters.

Enjoy!

[Scarlet Lady]

I tested Lake against it. She's borderline (got 34 points). It said: "Your character is cutting it close, and you may want to work on the details a bit, but you're well on your way to having a lovely original character. Good work." Glad of that. I don't want to take her too far!

[Skybase Girl]

My fanfic in progress contains quite a few original characters, although in fairness, they've been mostly mentioned in the character bios, even if they didn't make it into NCS itself.

Because there is so little detail, you have to make of them what you will, so you do kind of see them as "yours". I quite like mine so far, and I don't think any of them fall into Mary-Sue or Marty Stew category. Others may beg to differ in the fullness of time ! (i.e., if they ever see the light of the computerised page.)

Still, I'm a bit worried by Doc's comment about original characters being a risky business..... He's probably right.

[hazel]

There's nothing wrong with original characters, but you do, as Doc said, have to be careful with them. Once they start upstaging the canon characters, mouthing off to authority figures, or seem to exist merely as wish-fulfilment for the author, that's when you need to take a long, hard look at that character.

Confession time: many years ago, shortly after original Scarlet first aired, I invented a character called Jackie Metcalfe. She had waist-length red hair and green eyes. She was a champion figure-skater, and a fabulous singer who had had a dozen or more No.1 chart hits. She lived on her own in a luxurious bungalow beside the Thames, and kept a horse in the back garden. She was Scarlet's niece, and 19 years old (why 19? I have no idea...). She was perfect in every way and I wished I was her. After a few years, I metaphorically beat her to death with her own ice-skates. (Actually, now I'm a little better at such things, perhaps I should resurrect her. Hmmm.)

[Serena Lewis]

LOL, Jackie sounds sort of like one of my characters, who's kind of hanging in the balance. I may use her, I may not.
She's called Melissa, has waist-length red hair and green eyes ( There you go, there's some similarity! ), is very rich, and very nice with it, which annoys everyone. She's talented at ballet, attended a boarding school, and is a Lieutenant in Spectrum.
If I decided to use her, I'd have to change some things, obviously. There's are some more undesirable qualities to her, so she's not completely perfect, but still...I'll have to think about her a lot.

xx

[Skybase Girl]

I know this is getting away from the Mary-Sue/MartyStew debate, but to continue the theme of original characters.....

Hazel is right, in that original characters shouldn't take over, but it can be hard to find a balance. I find it's better if new characters are not part of Spectrum, or at least, are not based on Skybase. I'm not sure I've done that deliberately, but it seems to be the way it's worked out.

I think it's tricky to present them as well-rounded individuals, perhaps with stories of their own that can only be hinted at, because they are not the story, only part of it. At the same time, they have to be interesting, otherwise there's no point.

[MMK]

I tested Lake against it. She's borderline (got 34 points). It said: "Your character is cutting it close, and you may want to work on the details a bit, but you're well on your way to having a lovely original character. Good work." Glad of that. I don't want to take her too far!

I tested my other character against it (Scarlet Lady should know which character I'm talking about .. well I hope Scarlet Lady knows which one I'm talking about) and she is borderline (like Lake).

(I think) Spectrum personnel are borderline mary sues...

[Captain Indigo]

Since Rose has been mentioned before in the thread, I thought I would run her through the test. She came out with 35 points, which is the upper-most boundary for 'borderline'. I have in the past freely admitted that she is a Mary-Sue, although she's becoming ess and less of one as she (and I ) grows up.

I like her more now that she isn't perfect

EDIT: I ran her through again, using the far-future self I created for 'The Ghost of Christmas Past', and she is now an Uber-Sue, with 58 points. Yikes

[Marion]

I bit the bullet and ran Lt. Flaxen through the test.

She scored 18.
The result said: 11-20 points: The Non-Sue. Your character is a well-developed, balanced person, and is almost certainly not a Mary Sue. Congratulations!
Phew! That's a relief. I refuse to do Philly... far too many questions about dream jobs for that to be safe...

[Scarlet Lady]

I tested my other character against it (Scarlet Lady should know which character I'm talking about .. well I hope Scarlet Lady knows which one I'm talking about) and she is borderline (like Lake).

Nope, no idea! Ok, ok, don't hit me, MMK. I do know what you mean.

Funny thing is, when I created Lake I wanted her to be like me in many ways. It was my way of placing myself in forum fan fictions. It wasn't until I thought she needed fleshing out in order to explain what I was talking about in the affore-mentioned FFFs that I tried making her less like me and more of a character in her own right. She's somewhere in between at the moment, I guess.

[Captain Lime]

My character is a non-sue too. The test asked why I'd bothered taking it.

Does this make me more mature than my big sister? (Joking, SL!)