The biggest injustice ever!

[DanDud88]

Gerry Anderson's New Captain Scarlet (which is the best thing ever) gets cancelled, Meanwhile Doctor Who (which is the most crappist overatest thing ever) total saturates the BBC gets 2 Spin offs, 2 christmas specials and and strong ratings in the US.

Thats just totaly unfair and the biggest injustice ever!
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Swed

[Kambei]

Gerry Anderson's New Captain Scarlet (which is the best thing ever) gets cancelled, Meanwhile Doctor Who (which is the most crappist overatest thing ever) total saturates the BBC gets 2 Spin offs, 2 christmas specials and and strong ratings in the US.

Thats just totaly unfair and the biggest injustice ever!

I think that you will find that it is really a matter of perspective. I am a fan of both. Yes, it really is allowed in fandom to like two completely different shows.

As for DW being crap and getting excellent ratings on both sides of the Atlantic, that argument just doesn't work. If it was as you say, it would not be doing as well.
Conversely, I could point out many reasons why NCS has not worked, not teh least the timeslot and publicity, but also some of the writing.

One of the main failinga for NCS was the publicity. Even Desperate Housewives got more coverage in teh British cult television press than NCS.

[Marion]

I have to agree with Kambei; I don't think Dr Who is that bad, and 6-8 million viewers per episode would probably agree with me. Even if you accept the disputed (and unproven) figure of 4 million viewers watching NCS at its peak - it just didn't make the same impact as The Doctor.
It is also true that NCS did not have the support the BBC gave Dr Who, nor, I suspect, does Captain Scarlet (or even the entire group of Anderson programmes) have the same numbers in a dedicated fanbase that 'The Doctor' does, and that combination of factors probably meant that NCS didn't earn its keep by pulling in enough viewers/advertising, according to the commerical yardstick of ITV.
I'd also disagree with NCS being the 'best thing ever' considering that - IMHO - the original series can knock it into a cocked-hat; but even I wouldn't claim that the original Captain Scarlet was the 'best thing ever'.
All three shows have strengths and weaknesses of their own and it depends on your point of view and what you like to watch, I suppose.

[Kambei]

It is also true that NCS did not have the support the BBC gave Dr Who, nor, I suspect, does Captain Scarlet (or even the entire group of Anderson programmes) have the same numbers in a dedicated fanbase that 'The Doctor' does, and that combination of factors probably meant that NCS didn't earn its keep by pulling in enough viewers/advertising, according to the commerical yardstick of ITV.

Having said that, I have found that in general, the Gerry Anderson fanbase is far less 'fanboy' and rabid than the Doctor Who forums. One I can think of in particular, which currently has just under 17, 500 members. The fans on there can be anally retentive to the point of obsession.
At least the regulars on this forum are intelligent and articulate.

[Elentari]

Sorry DanDud88, but I thought NCS was, overall, pretty average. In fact I could say more but I'm mindful people did like the series so I don't want to start a war.

As for Dr Who, I thought it was brilliant. I enjoyed every episode.

I also know of plenty of dedicated Dr Who fans who are thankfully, not anally retentive (and no I'm not in any Dr Who groups). But I have come across GA fans who could easily be considered exactly as some Dr Who fans have been described - but thankfully none appear to be in this group!

[shadokp]

I do like many aspects of Doctor Who but I find much of the writing to be lazy. Producer Russsell T. Davies is attempting to produce an emotional reaction by creating a series of dramatic scenes with little emotional continuity connecting. A more recent example is the (spoilers) departure of Rose. Why was Rose being sent to the alternate reality? Her mother was sent there with Pete and Mickey. Why was her mother sent there?? No reason. There was no reason why Jackie went (she would not be sucked in because she has no void stuff). So Rose and Jackie stay in our universe - end of story.

That seemingly small little detail was ignored and created a very emotional departure but that departure (well acted) was based on a flimsy plot point.

Okay - how did Pete save Rose? How did he know she was falling toward the breach. How did he know where to stand? I guess it could have been blind luck.....

The idea that alternate reality Pete saves Rose and Rose had tried to save her own Pete in the earlier season works perfectly on a dramatic level but story wise, again, weak.

There is so much that is excellent in Doctor Who (Empty Child, Girl in Fireplace, The Impossible Planet, etc) but I have trouble with some of way that the series is produced and written.

When Doctor Who was on the same days at NCS, I was impressed more with NCS. Rarely did I ever find flaws that affected my enjoyment of NCS while in DW, I always had stuff that bugged me. Since that overlap has ended I do believe DW has improved greatly.

I am not saying NCS was without flaw but I felt the writing (given the limitations of the Mysteron threat and such, was much more solid than some of the earlier DW episodes.

KP

[DanDud88]

Ow come on. I was forced to watch the xmas invasion and the runaway bride for christmas this year and last. Both times had a silly scene where the bad buys could easily have killed the dr but decided to start bla bla baling the plot. It reminded me of Austin Powers where they take the mick out of James Bond

"Now MR Powers whilst the incredbly slow dipping mecanism lowers you to your death, I will tell you my intire plan and how you can foil it." "Now close the blinds, so if you try to escape I wont notice" Meanwhile Dr Eviles sons telling him that they can get guns and shoot the guy but Dr Evil tells him thats just not the way they do things.

I mean the giant spiderwoman type thing was gona kill them then suddenly stopped and told them what the plot was. So that gave the dr enough time to run to his time machine and escape. Same in llast years xmas special. Those aliens had him surrounded and then the dr himself starts bouncing round the place going "oh you aliens wont hurt me, or this planet bla bla bla, ur doing this becuase bla bla bla" Come on if thats what the Xmas specials whats the rest of the series like.
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Vision insurance advice

[Kambei]

Ow come on. I was forced to watch the xmas invasion and the runaway bride for christmas this year and last. Both times had a silly scene where the bad buys could easily have killed the dr but decided to start bla bla baling the plot. It reminded me of Austin Powers where they take the mick out of James Bond

"Now MR Powers whilst the incredbly slow dipping mecanism lowers you to your death, I will tell you my intire plan and how you can foil it." "Now close the blinds, so if you try to escape I wont notice" Meanwhile Dr Eviles sons telling him that they can get guns and shoot the guy but Dr Evil tells him thats just not the way they do things.

I mean the giant spiderwoman type thing was gona kill them then suddenly stopped and told them what the plot was. So that gave the dr enough time to run to his time machine and escape. Same in llast years xmas special. Those aliens had him surrounded and then the dr himself starts bouncing round the place going "oh you aliens wont hurt me, or this planet bla bla bla, ur doing this becuase bla bla bla" Come on if thats what the Xmas specials whats the rest of the series like.

So you are basing your dislike of Doctor Who on those two episodes? And comparing them to a series of movies that are a mickey-take of the genre?

There are just too many plot holes in the original and especially the new series of Captain Scarlet to mention. The characterisation in the new version have been very grating at times. About the only exceptional thing about it has been the CGI. Most of the plots have been done to death on other shows. Even the 'ghost' Scarlet.

[Chris C]

I agree that both shows have had their problems, but it's still a personal choice as to which you prefer. I much preferred the 9th doctor series to the 10th - I thought that the silly behaviour of Doctor No 10 and Rose really grated, and NEARLY stopped me watching.


NCS and Doctor Who are both full of plotholes, and so are most tv shows/films. But if you like the basic premise or the characters, I'd have thought most people would keep watching regardless.

[Kambei]

To be fair, I have taken somebody to task on a Doctor Who forum today for making a similar comment about that show.

[Marion]

DanDud 88 said:

a silly scene where the bad buys could easily have killed the dr

The only comment I'd like to make to that, is to refer you to the scene in 'Achilles Messenger' where Black, safely hidden on the roof of another building, has the top brass of Spectrum in his gun sights - and does he kill them? Does he heck.
He says: "Not today, Scarlet, but one day - one day soon..." Yeah,right.... don't want to finish the series 13 episodes too soon, do we?
You could get Skybase through that plot gap...

[Chris C]

To be fair, I have taken somebody to task on a Doctor Who forum today for making a similar comment about that show.

Which comment, Kambei?

[Kambei]

To be fair, I have taken somebody to task on a Doctor Who forum today for making a similar comment about that show.

Which comment, Kambei?

It was a similar comment about how classic Doctor Who is the best television ever and that the new series is awful and that any fans of it should watch the original instead.

[Chris C]

I grew up with 'classic' Doctor Who (late Jon Pertwee, well into Tom Baker's reign!), and have to say I was really worried about how Chris Eccleston would be able to carry the role. When I saw it I thought it was fantastic!

And I have high hopes for Tennant now Rose has gone - it was only the silliness that I just couldn't feel comfortable with. But I wouldn't want to compare either new Doctors with the likes of Tom Baker - the show has moved on and to be honest, we've recently watched some of the older dalek episodes, and some early cyberman stories, and I don't think they should be compared to any of the new episodes. They are classics, and the recent series have been brought up-to-date. And I'm not sure how many people who have just tuned into the new series would really want to sit through the dodgy effects from 40+ years ago!

The only thing I really miss are the regular cliff-hanger endings. To me there is less of a tension build up in the new series, so less of those nail-biting behind-the-sofa memorable moments.

[shadokp]

Apparently Tennant has stated that he is going to tone down his Doctor a bit. I would also hope that the writers and namely RTD tone him down a bit. Already in The Runaway Bride he really doesn't have any silly moments.

KP