Too Few characters?
Moderator: Spectrum Strike Force
Others have commented on the other angels and captains brief screen time. How about fleshing out the other angels not just Destiny and Harmony and where are Captains Magenta and Ochre?
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ROBE
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When they should be doing all they can to generate and maintain interest - there is just nothing happening: no merchandise and no backup.
We were told at the outset, that things would improve and we should be patient. Okay - but can someeone explain WHY we should?
This is the entertainments industry and it is normally just about the slickest operation imaginable. No chances are missed to ram the new product down the throat of the target audience - and the target audience here is young children - a notoriously fickle group at the best of times. They don't want to wait until the summer for the games and comics - they want it now - cos by summer something else will have grabbed their attention.
It begins to look like the series was launched too early - nothing was ready to go except the opening episodes.
There again - if the first 2 episodes were sub-standard in the eyes of the production teams - shouldn't they have been improved rather than broadcast with the proviso that - don't worry, we get better?
I can't remember any other series that started under those conditions.
As Hazel said elsewhere:
At this point in the classic series, we'd met all the duty captains and Angels. Sorry - this is either very sloppy scripting, or lazy production. The characters may or may not have been ready, but not to have the universe ready is unforgivable.
Not only have we not seen any of the 'secondary characters - except White, Gold and Green and (once) Harmony - but no references are made to them or any of the infra-structure that underpins the organisation or the background to the 'universe' Spectrum operates in. This may not have been dealt with directly in the original TV shows, but the fans' interest was catered for in the accompanying merchandise.
Of the main characters we have seen, I can't say any of them have come over forcefully as individual characters in any way - and in the case of Blue and Scarlet they sound so alike it is sometimes hard to tell who's saying what when they are both on screen. (I'm thinking primarily of the scene in 'Rat-Trap' where Blue's preparing his rifle for combat and someone - either him or Scarlet - tells Dr Gold the action ' could be considered therapy' - but I don't think that's the only case.)
Very little use has been made of Scarlet's unique situation and the Mysteron threat has not been made to seem particularly threatening. In every episode so far (except Part 2 of Instrument of Destruction) - Scarlet's retrometabolism has not been called upon to do much.
Okay I'm not an under-ten year old boy - maybe if I was I woudn't be worrying - but does anyone have any information about how that target audience is reacting to the new series? My daughter is involved with the Scouting movement and with the youngest group - the Beavers - and she's not noticed any of them chatting about it....
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Marion
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Having a good friend who owns a comics/sci-fi shop, I know more than a little about the trade. Comics, books and magazines should at least be in post-production, if not finished by now ready for solicitation for the autumn. And if not, in the digital age, it takes a very short time to put them together. Interestingly, there is still nothing in Previews or the UK section for May/June release, although I would not expect to see any calender until either the April or May issue and annuals in the June issue. It lists for three months ahead usually, although the UK section can be less.
I have to say that if this was an American series, there would be a lot of back-up and merchandise either already available, or out very soon. Having said all this, I would rather wait a little and get higher quality merchandise than have it rushed out. At least the figures look to be a vast improvement on the previous offerings.
I get the feeling that we are only going to see most of the secondary characters in the next block of 13 episodes. Having said that, in the original series, it only tended to be Colonel White, Captains Scarlet and Blue and Lieutenant Green who got prominence in most of the episodes. The others only got significant screen time in a very limited number. The problem is that there is not really the room for much character development in a 25 minute action/adventure story. Even in sci-fi series with a 45 minute format, episodes featuring secondary characters do not fare as well either from scripting or viewing figures. With the shorter format, it is far better to concentrate at first on a core of characters and introduce others gradually.
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Kambei
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Kambei says:
in the original series, it only tended to be Colonel White, Captains Scarlet and Blue and Lieutenant Green who got prominence in most of the episodes. The others only got significant screen time in a very limited number.
True, but at least the others got a mention from time to time and sent to do the boring jobs...
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Marion
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First of all in the instance of there being too few characters in the show and that other characters are not getting a mention, please do try to keep in mind that the order in which you are seeing these episodes is NOT the order Gerry Anderson originally planned. ITV are choosing the shooting order.
There is much more to come for the fans of the series, perticularly in the next series of the new show. This whole project has been a huge learning curve, one that has not been tried on this scale before and so you will literally see the series growing with the development of the project.
In the case of the first 2 episodes being altered for release, well would you invest a further 2 million pounds to alter something which really didnt mave much wrong with it in the first place?
And in the case of character development, there is only so much that you can fit into a 20 minute episode. Would you really be happy with a whole episode about secondary characters when nothing else happens to further the war with the Mysterons?
There is much more for Scarlet to do and you will see his powers in use a number of times in the coming episodes. (He has already used them in the rescue of Colonel White, to get to Lewis in the reactor core and to destroy the bugs in Swarm. Although to a lesser extent)
Bozza
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Bozza
1/ If you took the original series out of context, separated from all the comics, novels and annuals available at the time - you probably learn as much about them as you do in NCS. Would you have known Lt Green or Captain Magenta's real name from the 1967 series alone? No.
2/ The series has been aired ahead of the merchandising schedule. If it had aired in the autumn as originally planned, then more back-up merchandise, like an annual, comics or novels, might be around to back up the series and add some background.
3/ It actually does take quite a bit of work to do a commercial website (I know, I've worked on one). Most fans think you just do a few pretty pictures, and words, and that's it. Above all, if there's no-one on the staff of NCS who does it, you have to pay someone to do it, and you can be talking in excess of £100 an hour freelance for someone with adequate knowledge of webscripts, plus testing time. This all adds up.
Plus it depends how much knowledge is around. Did main writer Phil Ford write a 'bible' that anyone can just upload the info from. Or does info have to be 'reverse formatted' from the snippets in the series?
And even if it is ready now, would Gerry Anderson prefer it to be made available for the autumn re-launch? I know I'd probably hold back, and do it properly...
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shaqui
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Kambei wrote:Comics, books and magazines should at least be in post-production, if not finished by now ready for solicitation for the autumn. And if not, in the digital age, it takes a very short time to put them together. Interestingly, there is still nothing in Previews or the UK section for May/June release, although I would not expect to see any calender until either the April or May issue and annuals in the June issue. It lists for three months ahead usually, although the UK section can be less.
Lead times are significantly shorter now, but the trade press usually promote annuals around May/June, as you say. Covers may already have been prepared for advance sales. Anyone who subscribes to a catalogue like Littlewoodsof Family, keep an eye out for the 'Autumn/Winter 2005/2006' editions, which should appear from the end of next month. They may show the cover of the annual, if nothing else. Hopefully some of the toys too (though with early artwork, if I recall the 1993 versions).
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shaqui
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Bozza said:
please do try to keep in mind that the order in which you are seeing these episodes is NOT the order Gerry Anderson originally planned. ITV are choosing the shooting order.
If there is a developing narrative over the series, how can the transmission order be optional? And if it isn't optional, then ITV need a kick up the pants. They have really done almost everything they can to make this first series a dud event...
Bozza said:
This whole project has been a huge learning curve, one that has not been tried on this scale before and so you will literally see the series growing with the development of the project.
Fascinating no doubt for the technically minded amongst us - and exciting for the people participating in the production. Not really relevent to the viewing audience 'en masse' I would have thought. Especially a target audience of 9-13s (I think it was.)
Bozza said:
In the case of the first 2 episodes being altered for release, well would you invest a further 2 million pounds to alter something which really didnt mave much wrong with it in the first place?
I quite agree - but the impression that leaked out on this website WAS that the opening two-parter wasn't up to scratch and 'it gets better' - something I'm not qualified to speak on as a mere viewer. However, I don't notice much difference in the 'technical' side of the episodes - except that: the faces changed, the hair got less realistic and they sometimes walk with a very strange 'rolling' gait and bouncy knees...which is reminiscent of someone doing an impression of how the puppets moved.
Bozza said:
And in the case of character development, there is only so much that you can fit into a 20 minute episode. Would you really be happy with a whole episode about secondary characters when nothing else happens to further the war with the Mysterons?
I also agree. twenty minutes isn't long enough to develop much - which was where the merchandising triumphed in the original series - the information was out there and available for fans who wanted to know. On mature reflection, it didn't always make much sense, mind you...
On the subject of secondary characters: why would an episode that included secondary characters mean that 'nothing happens to further the war with the Mysterons' ? All you need is a plotline that includes them. Even the odd remark about the other officers being sent to do something else would remove the impression that White, Green, Destiny, Scarlet and Blue run the show on their own....
Bozza said:
There is much more for Scarlet to do and you will see his powers in use a number of times in the coming episodes.
Good! That's what the show's meant to be about isn't it?
The whole impression that's been generated is that the tramsmission has been rushed. From my point of view, I'm pleased not to have to wait until September - I am notoriously impatient - I hope the series does very well - this Captain Scarlet's better than no Captain Scarlet at all. I expect the main problem is that I hoped it would 'take my breath away' and leave me waiting for the next episode - and it hasn't. My problem - not yours.
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Marion
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shaqui
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What I'm seeing here is something with the *potential* to be really exceptional - but which hasn't quite achieved that potential yet. We saw it in Star Trek TNG, I think, of which personally I felt that the first season was a big disappointment in terms of both the character development and the scripting - but from the second series onwards the sky was the limit, as the whole thing obtained a momentum of its own, as opposed to being merely a technologically updated re-jigging of the original series. That has to happen here too: we've got to be able to identify with these characters; to be able to feel what they feel and to want to do what they're doing. That process has begun, I think: personally I loved Dr Gold's appalling bedside manner and Captain Blue's perfectly justified irritation at being used as bait by Scarlet in "Rat Trap" - it made them human - and even the comments on this forum about Destiny's derriere suggest that the wheels are turning! That's why the character development is so important, I feel: Spectrum has to become a family, as opposed to just one or two key operatives saving the planet every week. (Mind you, to be fair, I think the original series suffered from exactly the same problem: the family element was decidedly absent - which was possibly one of the reasons why Scarlet never quite attracted the devotion of Thunderbirds. It was only in the related literature that that deficiency was rectified, with the obvious potential for interpersonal relationships between the characters being explored.)
Now as Bozza's quite rightly pointed out, this whole exercise is a learning curve - and an exciting one too. It can only get better, and I want it to - I really do, because I want it to succeed. The technology is in place; all we need is the warmth of the characterisation; the support of some rattling good scripts and above all, a time slot that will attract a far wider audience. Thunderbirds did it in 1965, and Doctor Who's doing it now: I'm therefore surprised that MOM was perceived as being the place to launch it early - because the effect must surely be that a sizeable proportion of the target audience will have already seen it and moved on before any related merchandise appears in the shops. Kids are fickle creatures - they aren't going to wait six months for a relaunch before spending their pocket money - and if they don't, then manufacturers won't commit budgets to the production of the merchandise. It may be a chicken-and-egg situation here, with manufacturers demanding proof that the concept will sell, in turn prompting an early transmission date, but if so, I fear the effect could be the opposite of the intended one. If anybody can persuade me that I'm wrong about this, I'll be delighted - but that's my concern.
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Clya Brown
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shaqui
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I agree with Doc B - the audience needs to be able to empathise with the characters and care about what happens to them. I think the longer running time of 'Thunderbirds' made all the difference in making the characters more 'cuddly'. CS didn't have that advantage then and doesn't now - hence the need for that back-up merchandise and publicity support - especially the website!
The one thing no-one's mentioned in this discussion is that in 1967 there was little real competition for the wonderful Anderson shows - they were the best there was. (and I mean that in the sense that they were far superior to everything else then on TV - not that they were the only thing to see.) Now the kids have dozens of channels to chose from - more cartoons, CGI and SFX based shows than you can shake a stick at. Neither do they have (by and large) the regard and affection for the earlier shows that the older audience members retain. They don't want to wait for 'things to get better' and they won't wait for the spin-offs either..
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Marion
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