random ponderings

[Intensity Angel]

what if a electrical impulse device, like a pacemaker were placed inside scarlet? That would be disruptive.

[chrisbishop]

Interesting idea! But unless there's a very specific reason (or motive) behind it, wouldn't that be going through too much trouble JUST to hinder him or give him some headaches? While to simply get rid of him, if only temporarily, you might only need a good taser gun...

Something to ponder...

[Kambei]

I seem to remember mentioning Taser technology a couple of years back. Since then, we now have the X26 pistol and the XREP:

http://www.taser.com/products/law/Pages/TASERX26.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44KVZLxm8a0

Considering how far the technology has come in the last 20 years, and it is another 57 until Captain Black commands the Mars mission, how effective will these be by then?

[Shades]

In my case, I stipulated that electricity would hinder the healing process. It would depend on the voltage and length of exposition, to explain how much longer it'll take for retrometabolism to kick in, do its work - or EVEN work, for that matter.

A sufficient amount MIGHT even be lethal - but THAT I only suggested so far.

What about a modified capacitor and assorted dohickys from an electric fence? Easily obtainable from any farm supply and easily modifiable into something that will deliver just enough of a shock to halt the healing process but it won't be long enough or powerful enough to kill

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_fence

[Intensity Angel]

A shark pod uses a electrical field to protect divers from sharks. they can detect electrical signals produced by any living creature. They have receptors on their noses and the shark pod causes these to become temporarily imobolised. However divers can be electrocuted due to the device.

It wouldn't be that hard to modify the shark pod, like the equipment from the electric fence, like you said Shades. Sharks pods are expensive bits of kit but are easy to obtain so both the electrical fence equipment and shark pod could be used to incapacitate Scarlet.

And bear in mind protective equipment aginst sharks is still in its infant stages. In the future it will change. What if a Mysteron agent tampered with such equipment to make it as if Scarlet had suffered a tragic diving accident? Think about it, Scarlet might be indestructible but what are the chances of recovering fully if he's various limbs are in the stomachs of several sharks? Please don't remind me of fan fic 'heartless'. I have taken that idea of him regrowing a new heart (or limb) into consideration.

[Shades]

What about cryogenics? In the process of freezing, the cells themselves are ruptured or damaged by the forming ice crystals. There are no undamaged cells left to use as templates for what is supposed to be there. How would that affect things? Would Scarlet be able to be revived from that?

[Intensity Angel]

I suppose he would somehow survive.

There is a type of frog that can survive freezing due to some kind of natural antifreeze in its bloodstream.

[Marion]

The whole point of retrometabolism is that we don't know how it works - despite Dr Gold's diagnosis - and that it has made Scarlet INDESTRUCTIBLE. The only thing - in canon - that he might be susceptible to is electricity, and we see at least one occasion where he copes with that too, so the best you can say there is 'not proven'.
It doesn't matter what you do to him, he will survive. Although I have to agree that being digested in the interiors of various wild animals does make that seem... a little unlikely. No wonder he's looking a bit worried when he gets thrown to the sharks at the end of every episode.

[chrisbishop]

I would agree with Marion that within canon, the only thing that is susceptible to kill him - and yet has still to be proven effective - would be electricity.

The case of having bits of him eaten by wild animals is certainly to ponder - as would be the possibility of his body being cut to pieces and sent at every corners of the planet. In those specific cases, should we consider that the missing parts will grow back, 'return' to their rightful owner by themselves, or would we need to find them again and put him back together (a la Frankenstein) to hope in seeing him revive? All this, of course, is mere speculation.

Regarding cryogenics - or even, simply put, should he freeze to death, following whatever event... I imagine if he should stay in the ice long enough, he might probably not revive by himself. But should he warmed up after a time, then I see no reason for him not to return to live. The same, maybe, if he should be deprived of oxygen, or drown. Once he would return to a more hospitable environment, with the possibility to breath freely again, he would probably revive.

That is, at least, my beliefs on the matter, based on my observations.

[Doc Denim]

I really have to agree that no matter what fates any particular author may have in mind for Scarlet, such fates have to remain within the bounds of 'canon' - which I've always taken to mean "as seen only on the original show". As a youngster I had access to virtually nothing other than the series as broadcast at the time, so that was all I had to work with.

Captain Scarlet, however, could only be very happy that we all worry about him so! I personally am very convinced that Scarlet himself worries a great deal about these things, and I have included some of his own inner musings about such things in my fan-fic on more than one occasion. Shamelessly then, I am going to share two bits that seem apt for the discussion, covering demise both by wild animal and sub-zero temperature:

*****

(from Operation Minerva, Ch 2 )
In a situation like this one he was never sure himself. He joked about it as much as anyone, but there were dark hours when he often wondered when the Mysterons would finally get him. His sense of vulnerability was perversely acute; aside from the risk posed by high voltages, which they all knew about, he personally could think of all sorts of ways to get rid of someone who so persistently kept on coming back Most of them gruesome in the extreme. Perhaps there was a point past which the retrometabolism wouldn't work. He'd never... well, he’d never actually lost anything and his one relative piece had always received prompt medical attention. But there might be a time limit. There might be some critical mass. Or other---thresholds, that was what Fawn called them. It wasn't something anyone particularly wanted to experiment with. In the present circumstances he could well end up as shark bait, beyond recovery...

and

(from Operation Minerva, Ch 8 )
“It’s still more than enough to freeze your butt off, sir.” Teal said. “Without the proper gear and training, what we’ve got out there is severe frostbite and hypothermia in less than ten minutes.”

It was not an educated guess made by an officer trained in emergency first aid – as all Spectrum field agents were. Teal would have known with more certainty than that. Teal was a year or two older than the rest of Cloudbase’s new recruits – and he’d signed up with Spectrum after a prior and commended career as an elite paramedic in the city of Chicago’s Emergency Response department.

Scarlet merely shrugged. “It would have been a mistake. But I still would have gone, if there’d really been any chance of catching up. Never mind the frostbite.”

Roan shivered at the thought. “That’s inhuman, Captain.”

He nodded slowly. ”So are the Mysterons, Lieutenant.” And I might be too, Scarlet thought inwardly, as unsettled at the thought in that moment as he was every time it happened to cross his mind. The notion of freezing to death in a snowbank didn’t appeal. Neither did he like the idea of his corpse being found curled and twisted in some grimacing pose of rigor mortis and having to be thawed for recovery, like some prehistoric curiosity for study.

He wondered grimly what Fawn’s threshold might have been for that particular fate.

*****

Enjoy!

Doc Denim

[Shades]

Still though, with that kind of damage might there be possible long term effects, such as in one of the Halloween fics where Scarlet was buried alive in a graveyard and because it took him several deaths by asphyxiation to get out and he lost his memory as a result?

I guess what I'm driving at here is because freezing is a fairly damaging process and it takes quite a while for the body to thaw out as opposed to simply draining water from the lungs in the case of drowning, would it be plausible for there to be memory gaps or similar caused by that long gap between the death occuring and healing able to begin?

[Marion]

I think it is plausible that Scarlet's memory might well be affected - but not his body or his brain in a physical sense though, at least, not with any degree of permanance. Retrometabolism heals every physical injury.
I used that argument in a story I wrote in 2003.

However, canon tells us that Scarlet doesn't remember the 6 hours he was under the control of the Mysterons - so I would have no problem with him forgetting things in certain circumstances.
After all, he's forever losing his radio cap isn't he?

[Intensity Angel]

Too true. I wonder how many hats he has in reserve.

Whatever the physical damage is, and no matter what memory loss is sustained, the fact is that his retrometabolism isn't going to reapir any mental trauma. Accepted that Scarlet is a strong character and a top soldier, but it must be uncomfortable. And what if Scarlet does suffer a horrible death like being frozen to death, what if his retrometabolism kicks in to maintain cerebal activity or maintain blood flow or something along those lines?

[Skybase Girl]

Since the retometabalism does seem to be a physical thing and Scarlet's mind remains under his control, it seems reasonable to assume he would certainly be vulnerable to long-term trauma.

I would imagine that every experience of "death" and resurrection would have an accumulative effect, leaving him open to depression or possibly even psychosis. I would hope that a responsible employer such as Spectrum would ensure that his new best friend is his therapist, whether he likes it or not.

Something that also interests me is whether or not he would, over a period of time, consciously or unconsciously, start to shy away from situations that he knows will have a particularly unpleasant outcome. Every hero has his limitations, after all.

In a story only partly written and set at a time when Scarlet is a middle-aged man, I have a scene where a group of trainees question him about the type of "death" he fears most and whether he has actively avoided such trauma. It gives him pause for thought, while he searches for an honest answer.

He is human after all, at least in mind !

[Marion]

I agree - I think Scarlet does suffer mental anguish - how could he not? He knows that he will feel pain and you have to be unhinged to want to put yourself in the way of such suffering unless you have a good reason.
As far as I'm concerned, Scarlet's reason to do all the things he does, is to protect his friends and the planet they all live on.
And that, for me, is why he is a hero.
I've touched on this aspect of the CS universe in several stories; it is a theme that I like to explore. I may not like 'Captain Scarlet' - who seems to me to be pompous, patronising and humourless - but I do have respect for Paul Metcalfe and the truly heroic way he behaves when he's faced with the threats to his colleagues.
I also think that the fact that it is always Scarlet who takes the risks and endures the pain, probably causes anguish for those colleagues and his friends.
Its a sort of 'guilt of the survivor' - if you follow my meaning - and I think that's demonstrated fairly often by Captain Blue with his reminders for Scarlet to be careful and offers to go in his place. Blue must know that Scarlet is better placed to take the risks, but he also knows the pain and the anguish his frequent injuries and deaths cause his friend.
The two of them must understand each other very well to cope with the stresses their lives place them under.

In respect of the 'recurring' death, I once wrote a story, where Scarlet was trapped (with another human being) and faced a death by slow starvation:

if he couldn’t find a way out, she would surely starve to death and so would he, of course, although - he shuddered at the thought - he would probably revive and starve all over again… getting weaker each time until even his retrometabolism failed.

It would be interesting to see other people's ideas around that subject.