The religions of Spectrum personnel

[Marion]

Intensity Angel wrote:

Looking back, I don't think saints are considered as religious people, more heros than anything else. Like St George who killed the dragon.

Not quite sure what you mean by this, Intensity Angel. St George is one of the early saints who even if he existed, probably did not do half the 'deeds' credited to him. The Catholic Encyclopedia takes the position that there seems to be no ground for doubting the historical existence of Saint George, but that little faith can be placed in some of the fanciful stories about him. He is widely venerated though, especially in the Eastern Orthadox church, for 'slaying the dragon'.
However, most saints are, by definition, religious people - especially those who are actually known to have lived - and there are any number of people who might be thought of as 'heroes' who have never been considered for sainthood.

[Intensity Angel]

I think this may be the line that isn't to be crossed.

What I think of saints maybe different to what other people think and therefore I will not comment on what you have said Marion. It would be unwise and result in a heated debate which would probably upset or offend. I would be offended if anyone if I felt some was trying to change my opinion because of what their opinion is or seriously question what I believe.

My beliefs are my own and I will not scatter them across this thread in negative emotion.

[Marion]

I am not asking you to, Intensity Angel. I am merely trying to understand what you're talking about. If you think differently 'to what other people think' that's fine with me. I am a thoroughly secular person and have no religious affiliation to anything and I would never expect any one to change their beliefs, unless they wanted to - nor would I expect any one to try to change mine.
However, it does seem to me that if 'what [you] think of saints' is different in some way from the accepted definition, and you don't explain how, then you should either expect to be asked - in a spirit of friendly enquiry and a desire to understand the discussion - or not mention them.
Given that this whole thread is supposed to be about Captain Scarlet and the conjectured religions of the characters, and you have mentioned 'heroes', I merely wanted to understand where your thoughts were leading. We're not having a theological debate.

[chrisbishop]

I've been checking this thread, because I know very well that religion(s) could be a very hot topic.

Theological debates led to disputes, wars and schisms, and I believe this is still true today.

I would suggest to keep to the subject at hand within the content of Captain Scarlet universe (and/or Gerry Anderson universe at large), even extending to most of the meaningless questions we had within this thread (like the meaning of a word sometimes uttered by Destiny, and anyway, it was within context).

However, I believe that at the moment, we are dangerously threading on borderline subjects, that might rise the ire or discontent of one or another of the participants, or readers of this forum, so if we cannot keep within the limits established, we may have to close this thread, before it goes too far, or at least delete some of the comments from the latest pages.

A schism and disputes within the Spectrum HQ community is the last thing this webmaster wants!

[Intensity Angel]

Understood Chris.

Lets hope the thread goes back into safer waters.

I have and have always seen Saints as heroes, in the same way I see Captain Scarlet as a hero, because they do something incredible or something good that helps people.

Heroes don't have to be special, they can be ordinary people, but to someone or some people, they are special for what they have done.

Captain Scarlet is brave and does a job that no one else could ever do, even if it is fantasy, risking his life for the greater cause, becuase it is what he believes is right and it is not worth risking the lives of his friends if they could die and never return. Alright anyone can die at anytime, that's life, but if he were real, in my opinion he'd be a saint.

[Skybase Girl]

I agree that Scarlet's good deeds might well be considered saintly by those who know about them. However, since his actions are not likely to be widely publicised, I doubt he would ever be considered as a candidate for canonisation.

In any case, as far as I know, most "official" saints do not have this status bestowed on them until after their deaths, so the Catholic church might well have its work cut out with Scarlet!

[Marion]

Wikipedia says:
In a Catholic sense the term "saint" refers to any person in Heaven—however, since the 10th century, the title "Saint" is only given to persons who have been officially recognised by the Church.
In the days when the Church of England was in union with Rome, recognition was in the form of canonisation. Those martyrs and confessors given the title traditionally, prior to the establishment of the canonisation process or since the break with Rome, are generally still considered both "saints" and "Saints".
The title "Hero" is sometimes used as well, more often to refer to those Saints who have lived and died since the time of the Reformation.

I agree, Skybase Girl, it'd be tough to canonise a man who kept reappearing to do yet more deeds! Mind you, if they don't know he's done the deeds, why would they be considering canonisation?
This brings us back to the often asked question: Just how secret is Spectrum?
The comic stories seem to suggest that the identity of Captain Scarlet is known, if not widely publicised. There are several stories that involve members of Spectrum agents' families: Scarlet's uncle, Destiny's sister, Blue's uncle - for example. Therefore it has to be assumed that The Mysterons know who the agents are. Presumably, they got the details from Captain Black though, so it doesn't necessarily follow that the information is general knowledge.
Media reports of the missions must - when they say anything at all - keep to the codenames: Captain Scarlet saved the passengers on the plane that crashed at Lake Toma airport, or Captain Blue saved the World President. However, many of the missions in OCS were fairly odd events. The media might have reported that a helicopter crashed at the Manicougan site - they might not have known why it crashed and what it might have done if it hadn't crashed... if you follow my meaning.
The possibility of individual agents becoming well known for doing derring do, might be fairly limited in the outside world.

[Intensity Angel]

Spectrum is a military organisation, of course its going to remain secret to the general public. NCS is very good at showing this, especially with the episode, 'Hiest' where Colonel White's daughter is kidnapped. She knows who Scarlet is by codename only but that's it.