Sixteen Rules?

[MMK]

SHORT STORIES have to be short, concise AND precise. NEVER scarce, in fear of appearing minimal. A short story should have one plot and aim at one conclusion.

NOVELS are longer - many more pages, and/or chapters - and must present details, without however sounding repetitive, arduous - and tedious. Subplots are not obligatory, but when there, should help to make the story advance, not drag it down.

I think I may have found an example of both...

Short Story: Snapshot
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/768048/1/

Novel: Spectrum is Black!
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/946628/1/

[Marion]

MMK said:

I agree with number 11 but IF Scarlet Is the narrator and he dies, the others would probably fill him in on the action he's missed (like in Chiller )

Certainly they would, but you'd have to make it clear he'd been dead inbetween times... With a 'normal' narrator, once he was dead your story would usually have to come to an abrupt end... (although there have been examples where that wasn't the case...I can think of at least one film where the narrator is dead )

'Snapshot' and 'Spectrum is Black!' are both on the website fiction pages and are both excellent stories.

[shaqui]

Yep, I think a fair few of them are.
Just out of interest the latest bit of 'profound' reader development wisdom within UK public libraries is that men and women do not read - or want to read - the same kind of fiction. Men, in fact, do not really want to read fiction at all - but will sometimes read a little bit.
This is taken further with advice about creating 'a men's shed' in an area of the library - with car repair manuals, magazines about men's interests, (or what the largely female staff imagine men's interests to be ) newspapers (an acceptable form of fiction, it seems) and graphic novels. NO ROMANTIC LITERATURE WHATSOEVER, is to be placed anywhere within eyesight of this ghetto.

Well I'm actually offended by this sexist statement. I used to read a lot of fiction - novels, short stories (even fan fiction) and a number of genres including - shock horror - romance, and the shift has been the taking up of writing on a continual and consistent basis for the websites I edit - I don't have time for both! Most reading now is research-orientated but I resent the broad brush that is being used here...

To me it smacks of M&S's old habit of putting menswear at the front of the shop to save the average British male the horror of walking past women's cardis -or - WORSE - underwear!

Did they really? I never knew that...

CS is a broad church - and does have many female fans - long may it continue to be so. I wouldn't have it any other way!

The funny thing is, I never really knew there was a large female fan following for this series (and Thunderbirds too it seems) until recently... is this due to the internet or was it always there? I recall a lot of fan meetings i went to (not just CS but other series like Dr Who, Star Trek, other SF) I'd have said the ratio was roughly 1:5 - one girl for every 5 or so boys. I've noticed an increase in women at various SF events I've been to but they always seemed in the minority.

I have no qualms about variety but I left FF becaus the tide of stories relating to 'wishy washy romanticism' was increasing dramatically, were for the most part reasonably well written but just not enthralling or captivating for me. And believe me I do actually appreciate a good romance if well done. These were not.

How many of you have watched the Thunderbirds film and - if you haven't switched it off in disgust before the end presumably - said 'well actually it's not such a bad film but it's just not Thunderbirds! Well that's how I feel about the romantic Scarlet stories. I've yet to read one that has had the romance there for a logical reason other than the writer's own wish fulfilment - the question is 'are you writing for yourself or for other people?'. Shoehorning one form of fiction into the format of another is one thing I would list under 'bad fan fiction'. Having said that though, I thought the recent Dr Who episode 'The Girl In The Fireplace' was absolutely superb as an SF romance, and begged to be longer and given a bit of room to breathe. But even as it stands it's a breath-taking piece of TV that most FF can only hope but aspire to.

[shaqui]

NOVELS are longer - many more pages, and/or chapters - and must present details, without however sounding repetitive, arduous - and tedious. Subplots are not obligatory, but when there, should help to make the story advance, not drag it down.

I think I may have found an example...

Novel: Spectrum is Black!
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/946628/1/

Despite its length not really being in the novel league (should be 40,000 words+) I flicked through this and found it a fairly good read - a bit like the stuff I used to read and enjoy. It's a reasonable effort but I found the 'romantic' interplay between Tracy, Scarlet and Blue forced and unrealistic, almost as contrived and space-filling as Dr Kurnitz's ill-fitting flit around Cloudbase in 'Dangerous Rendezvous'. There was also a bit of awkward exposition early on which almost had me stop reading - the bit about Scarlet and Blue's fathers and presumably some back history which didn't seem that relevant once I'd finished.

The Black stuff was really good and got round issues of not revealing anything more about the Mysterons without it feeling awkward or a cop-out. It was also a very nice set-up for how the series could have ended.

7.5 out of 10

[Marion]

Shaqui wrote:

Marion wrote:
Yep, I think a fair few of them are.
Just out of interest the latest bit of 'profound' reader development wisdom within UK public libraries is that men and women do not read - or want to read - the same kind of fiction. Men, in fact, do not really want to read fiction at all - but will sometimes read a little bit.
This is taken further with advice about creating 'a men's shed' in an area of the library - with car repair manuals, magazines about men's interests, (or what the largely female staff imagine men's interests to be ) newspapers (an acceptable form of fiction, it seems) and graphic novels. NO ROMANTIC LITERATURE WHATSOEVER, is to be placed anywhere within eyesight of this ghetto.

Well I'm actually offended by this sexist statement. I used to read a lot of fiction - novels, short stories (even fan fiction) and a number of genres including - shock horror - romance, and the shift has been the taking up of writing on a continual and consistent basis for the websites I edit - I don't have time for both! Most reading now is research-orientated but I resent the broad brush that is being used here...

Oh, so am I. I don't actually believe it for a moment - and I think it would be a retrograde move - but that is the way public libraries are being advised to go if they wish to attract more (elusive male) readers - so presumably someone, somewhere has some statistics that can be used to make it look like it's a fact? (I don't think I would believe them either).
Its a shame there aren't any sceptical/cynical/ironical smilies...
Personally, I read more non-fiction than fiction - and I get told I'm in a minority all the time... pretty much like people promoting the new NCS said about female viewers and fans.

[chrisbishop]

Well I'm actually offended by this sexist statement.

And you have every right to be! It seems that those in powers always think they have a BETTER understanding of what people like, or want - and will do things according to that belief, nowithstanding what we REALLY like, want or think!

Incidentally:

The funny thing is, I never really knew there was a large female fan following for this series (and Thunderbirds too it seems) until recently... is this due to the internet or was it always there? I recall a lot of fan meetings i went to (not just CS but other series like Dr Who, Star Trek, other SF) I'd have said the ratio was roughly 1:5 -

I have a bit of trouble with that kind of statement myself. Maybe I AM in the minority, but I also think it's a fairly common mistake to assume that girls (and women!) don't like or don't appreciate science-fiction or action-oriented TV series/movies/books as their male conterparts do. As Marion said above:

pretty much like people promoting the new NCS said about female viewers and fans.

And it's nearly always been this way. Personally, I've always been interested in sci-fi in general. Movies, books, TV series... For Heaven's sakes, I even read super-heroes comic books in a time where it was assumed that media was only aiming boys!

And I think I am not alone, if I judge by the present company.


Or maybe it is simply that the people on this forum are non-conformists...

[hazel]

I remember going to the newsagents to buy TV21, only to be patronised by the (male) shopkeeper. "You can't buy that. little girl, it's a boys' comic!". Mum arranged for it to be delivered after that...

Shaqui - it's interesting that you never realised there was such a female following of SF in its various incarnations. Starting with Torchy, Twizzle and Supercar, then moving on to Doctor Who, Star Trek and all points south, I have been a devoted viewer and reader of science fiction since before I even knew what it was. For that, I probably need to thank my father, for apparently neither noticing nor caring that I was female, and introducing me to boys' stuff like science fiction and train sets. As far as I'm concerned, SF has always been an equal opportunity genre.

And to crowbar this post back to the thread topic: Marion, I loved those rules! I can think of a few writers (not contributors to the Headquarters library, I'm glad to say) who could do with taking them to heart. Many a fic has been ruined for me by long and obviously lovingly, but badly, written descriptions of Mary Sue's clothes, hair, eyes, make-up, accomplishments, friends, etc. etc. As soon as I see the magic phrase "she wore..." I do a quick skim through the rest of the paragraph. If more than the next dozen words are devoted to appearance, my Mary-Sue-dar is triggered, and I approach the rest of the fic with extreme caution.

[Sage]

We noted during the pitch for our [mock up] scifi/fanfic related magazine that the statstics suggest that the majority of scifi fans are male, but apparently there are more female fanfic writers overall. So we decided to pitch it evenly at both genders.

Really why is there such a need for 'man' and 'woman' things these days anyway? Growing up my brother and I just had a room of toys. He played with my dolls as much as I loved the Gerry Anderson stuff. Am older now but will read genres all across the board. Tend to prefer 'gen' to romance just because the latter can become so formulaic. Still wouldn't say it shouldn't be written/enjoyed, do so myself when the mood strikes.

Male and female writers probably do have diffrent takes on things, could 'do a study' but try not to make an issue of people's gender (it offends my equalist sensibilities). No one should be stigmatised [unwittingly or otherwise] for their preferences.

As for the female fanbase, the internet just helps us come together and compare notes. Far as I know we were all fans before getting 'net access, so that can't really be a factor.

Non-comformist?
LOL yeah I can live with that.

[shaqui]

Shaqui - it's interesting that you never realised there was such a female following of SF in its various incarnations. Starting with Torchy, Twizzle and Supercar, then moving on to Doctor Who, Star Trek and all points south, I have been a devoted viewer and reader of science fiction since before I even knew what it was.

I didn't say I wasn't aware full stop but that I was unaware the female following was so large. My sister is very much an SF fan, though having a family she isn't what would be called hardcore in as much as surfing the net, joining forums, or going to fan-orientated events. But she gained several levels of kudos from her kids in knowing the back history of Dr Who, with the advent of the new series!

I have, of course, always known there are other female fans - of Star Trek (Bjo Trimble, for example), Gerry Anderson (one-time chairperson Helen Mccarthy), Dr Who (several friends I know), etc. But again I emphasise the fact that they always seemed in the minority. Maybe it hasn't always been that way, but things like the internet have brought them out into the open?

[chrisbishop]

In an attempt to slowly get back to the original thread:

http://www.thehumorwriter.com/My_Seriou ... ction.html

Well, okay... not other rules, but an interesting study of the Fanfic writers phenomenon.

[Doc Denim]

Ah! I love this article! In many of the statements made, the author could have simply inserted "Doc Denim for instance" as the defining personality of whom the article speaks....and I'm sure I know a few others who think their names probably ought to be listed there too! (Certainly, I would nominate many of the fan-fic authors whose tales are posted on the fiction page of this very fine website!)

A wonderful find, Colonel Chris! Always good to know that not only are you not alone, but that penning fan-fic is damn near normal, too! (And there goes my plan for growing up to be the most eccentric resident on the block....)

Keep on scribbling all!

Doc Denim

[MMK]

Yep, I think a fair few of them are.
Just out of interest the latest bit of 'profound' reader development wisdom within UK public libraries is that men and women do not read - or want to read - the same kind of fiction. Men, in fact, do not really want to read fiction at all - but will sometimes read a little bit.
This is taken further with advice about creating 'a men's shed' in an area of the library - with car repair manuals, magazines about men's interests, (or what the largely female staff imagine men's interests to be ) newspapers (an acceptable form of fiction, it seems) and graphic novels. NO ROMANTIC LITERATURE WHATSOEVER, is to be placed anywhere within eyesight of this ghetto.

Well I'm actually offended by this sexist statement.

It's called Stereotyping

[Sage]

Totally agree with Doc Denim
Most excellent article, I have friends who are also on my uni course working to become professional writers who write fanfic as well [one has just published the first part of his epic SG1 AU fic].

There is a certain degree of eccentricity to fanfic, amongst those who aren't into it and for writers with a niche of sorts [am trying to become the most prolific writer CS slash, doing well so far ]. Still there is a certain comfort to knowing there are like minded people out there.

[MMK]

There is a certain degree of eccentricity to fanfic, amongst those who aren't into it and for writers with a niche of sorts [am trying to become the most prolific writer CS slash, doing well so far ]. Still there is a certain comfort to knowing there are like minded people out there.

I wasn't aware that there was such a thing as 'Slash Fanfiction' until I read a newspaper article (yes, I do read newspapers, if there's anything worth reading) about slash between two Lord of the Rings characters.

[Carrie]

I definitely liked the last fanfic site - it's interesting to see that there may be a few professionals out there that got started this way.
Perhaps somewhere in me is the next best-seller (yeah - right- I can't figure out what genre I'm in either - maybe I'll have to go for one of those breakout novel thingy types..)
However at least on the way writing fan-fic I'll have had a lot of practice and a lot of fun. As the author David Eddings (author of the Belgariad amongst other fantasy books ) once said: 'write a million or so words - then burn them. Now you're almost ready to start.

I have to recommend one of my personal fave fan-fic writing sites : some useful comments on writing and a good laugh into the bargain:

http://littlecalamity.tripod.com/HowTo2.html

And, I hate to stray from original topic either... but I can't help saying that I DID feel like a minority when it came to enjoying what people might term 'boys stuff'. I was usually the only female in Forbidden Planet or my local Edinburgh Sci-fi shop..... not that it bothered me one iota...I actually LIKE being different...
I dont think there's a Sci-fi series I don't like, and my interest runs to novels, and super-hero comics too (nice one Col Chris..) Been collecting since I was nine years old..and I still DO! (Wonders - when will I actually grow up???)
This is the only forum and fan-site I actively participate in though, I would NEVER have time to do any more being a family woman myself...however, I'm staying put because of the high quality of everything within it, and that includes the fan-fiction section.
For me the internet has been a source of joy that I can get together with like-minded individuals and have FUN in a world that sometimes seems to have so little of it!! (and a second childhood...)
God bless Bill Gates.... those guys at Google whom I can never remember ...Gerry Anderson and Colonel Chris Bishop!