Mysteron reconstructs

[Marion]

Has anyone ever wondered why - if the Mysterons make exact copies of their 'victims' - they are, with the exception of Captain Scarlet (who is noble, brave , compassionate and - So good looking - ) all murderous psychopaths? There must be an awful lot of dangerous people out there - or are the Mysterons just good at picking likely subjects for their needs?

(This point cropped up in a belting good discussion we had the other day - and its been puzzling me ever since )

[chrisbishop]

No only that - 2 other points:

1) some of them are also relatively indestructible. We can't say ALL since apparently a bullet might kill some of them easily enough (Here it might depends of the level of 'reconstruction' made by the Mysterons - either they gave to all their agents the same power of retrometabolism and then simply remove it and abandon the agents when there's no hope for the mission to be salvaged - or they didn't give the power to all of them - depending on the mission the said agents have to take for the Mysterons).


But the point here: last time I looked, no human is indestructible (well, some will seem like they are ...)


2) Some ot them ALSO have to power to make themselves explode WITHOUT the use of outside bomb, by using the chemical in their own body! Have you seen a HUMAN do that? We can't even claim it's instantaneous combustion. Victims of instantaneous combustion burn, they don't make whole rooms explode!

So that's hardly an 'exact copy'. Okay - PHYSICALLY, they're the same. And they seem to have the MEMORIES and EXPERTISES of the original... But it looks like it stops there.

[hazel]

This was discussed, rather well I thought, in "Dead Ringer". Is the murderousness of a Mysteron construct already there in the psyche of the original (in which case, the police are doing a lousy job, leaving so many raving psychos to wander around loose) or is it implanted during the process of reconstruction?
I think it's implanted.
I understand, from an acquaintance who studied hypnotism, that it isn't possible to hypnotise someone into doing something that is fundamentally against their nature. Mysteronisation is not hypnotism - it's destruction and rebuilding. The outer shell is the same, the knowledge, memories, etc. are the same, but the goals and motivations are Mysteron-implanted. Thus, a dedicated, loyal soldier such as Captain Scarlet, or a harmless scientist, e.g. Judy Chapman, or any number of blameless people, can be converted into killers, traitors, what have you. They are not naturally inclined to acts of violence - they were just in the right place with the right talents or knowledge, at the wrong time.

[Clya Brown]

Like Hazel, I'd see the motivation as an implanted process - one that's imposed over and above the basic retrometabolic function. Scarlet then becomes the only example known to date of a construct whose imposed motivation has ceased to function: in effect, he's the only living example of a "true" construct (in the sense that he's untampered with).

That raises the subject of what motivation actually is. It seems to me that it's got to be regarded as a separate capability from human skills and memories, which are evidently retained by Mysteron constructs from the original blueprints, as it were. Memories are not a function of consciousness, after all - they're a system of data logging and retrieval, which are both processes that machines are capable of performing, whereas consciousness isn't - it's something that as far as we know is unique to sentient life*. All right, so maybe the Mysterons are capable of isolating that function in sentient beings and either suppressing it or modifying it** to suit their own purposes.

Why do people want to do things? The easy answer is to say that they do them to survive, but that isn't accurate: people can and do voluntarily undertake courses of action that are likely (or even certain) to result in their deaths. That's where idealism comes in - whatever the process and irrespective of the rationality or otherwise of their judgement, they've come to the conclusion that the cause they're dying for is more important than their own survival. Presumably that's what the Mysterons do: redefine the priorities of the person they've retrometabolized in such a way that their own motivations are raised to the top of the brain's server queue.

[* Although that might actually be a tautology, since we'd probably actually have to define consciousness in those terms. I'd guess that we're probably too close to it to be able to characterize it properly.]

[** The weight of evidence would seem to be in favour of suppression, since Scarlet managed to get his marbles back at the end of episode one, right down to his lamentable taste in pyjamas.]

[Marion]

I think you are being a trifle harsh, Doc, in ascribing the choice of those pyjamas to Captain Scarlet.
I suspect that someone in Spectrum's Equipment Supply Department bought a job lot of them - cheap (possibly from a little local firm called Trotter Enterprises of Peckham) and handed them to sick bay for emergency use.
Now, Doctor Fawn is a humane and considerate man - and he would never willingly inflict pain and suffering on his patients - so he authorised that these garments be used only in fatal cases - where no embarrassment could be deemed to be caused. Of course, he was mortified to discover that Captain Scarlet revived and (although I suspect this fact was suppressed by Spectrum) promptly died again of embarrassment when he saw his night attire....
This theory has the added advantage of explaining how Fawn knew Scarlet was indestructible - anyone who could survive those pyjamas had to be!

[Doc Denim]

Just before I forget to mention it, I can't say as I've ever actually noted the color of Scarlet's PJ's - I originally saw the series in Black and white, so it never had much impact - I have seen it in full color since, but the detail didn't stick, so I will watch for this next time I have the tapes out, I guess. (But who know what might be fashionable in 2068? I remember harvest gold and avacado green being the top of taste in decor once upon a time.....) (I will also take god-awful PJ's over hospital gowns any day....)

However, to the question at hand: I agree with Hazel and Doc Brown that Mysteron constructs are handed their missions upon creation and 'tasked' to use whatever their appropriate talents or knowledge might be to attain the Mysteron objective. Though it is also possible that the victims, while mild-mannered enough in their day-to-day lives, are/were probably as capable as any psychopath (or, ahem, fan-fic writer) of coming up with imaginative and horrid ways to do in any inconvenient humans who might deliberately or inadvertently get in their way. (I personally manage to kill lots of characters on cyberpaper, though I've never had any inclination to try that sort of thing in real life....) That said, if, in the event the Mysterons happened to kill and reconstruct a psycho-killer for whatever purpose, I'm sure that construct would be as competent a murderer as he/she was prior to his or her demise.

all for now.....

Doc Denim

[FlicCity]

It is possible to 'persuade' humans to do things which are against their nature. The term normally used is 'brainwashing'. I think that it's also referred to as 'programming'.
It seems obvious to me that the Mysterons somehow manage that in a lot less time and with a lot less effort, as people who have been brainwashed behave as usual until something happens that acitvates their programming; which pretty much describes a Mysteron agent.
Any response?

[shaqui]

It is possible to 'persuade' humans to do things which are against their nature. The term normally used is 'brainwashing'. I think that it's also referred to as 'programming'.
It seems obvious to me that the Mysterons somehow manage that in a lot less time and with a lot less effort, as people who have been brainwashed behave as usual until something happens that acitvates their programming; which pretty much describes a Mysteron agent.
Any response?

It's also possible the Mysterons open the eyes of their 'agents' to wider possibilities and horizons, rather than the limitations of human consciousness. The motive of the Mysterons seems to be just revenge but if they were 'in the right', could a wholly alien perspective on the whole conflict sway anyone to their side?

After all, no-one has satisfactorily decided who or what the Mysterons really are...

[Clya Brown]

And revenge is a very human trait. It serves no purpose other than to gratify the perpetrator* - and that seems a strange characteristic to assume exists within an utterly alien species such as the Mysterons when you'd be hard-pressed to find examples of it in any other species on Earth. I mean, if you knock down an ants' nest they just build another one, don't they - so why would a race possessing the capability to reconstitute itself at the flick of a switch bother to exact revenge upon a bunch of oafs who come along one day and blow it up?

But then as noted above, the Mysterons could easily possess a motivation entirely beyond our comprehension. The Conquistadors' treatment of the natives of South America was all the harsher on account of the latters' understandable lack of interest in being converted to a religion they'd never heard of and whose doctrines were incomprehensible to them - so in the same way it could be that the main problem the Mysterons had with Captain Black's expedition was that they subscribe to the creed of the Universe having been sneezed out of the nose of the Great Green Arkleseizure, and the Earthmen didn't arrive wearing yellow and blue spotted handkerchiefs on their heads. Who can say?

[* Assuming that it isn't tempered by such practical considerations as the prudence of eliminating a perceived threat to one's own well-being. After all, we do that all the time when we punish somebody for doing something antisocial even when we know they aren't ever going to do it again. That's not really pure revenge: we're also sending a message to other would-be miscreants to the effect that this is what they can expect if they do the same sort of thing.]

[Silverback]

Do the Mysterons actually imbue their constructs with the ability to regenerate? Obviously Captain Scarlet has that ability but wasn't it hinted at that this was more of an accidental byproduct rather than deliberate intent by the Mysterons to give him the ability to regenerate?

The reason I ask is that I can't recall seeing any Mysteronised characters actually recovering from their injuries.

[Elentari]

Interesting point.

I always imagined they didn't regerate because they had outlived their usefulness. Humans are probably rather expendable to the Mysterons anyway.

[Mary Metcalfe]

Do the Mysterons actually imbue their constructs with the ability to regenerate? Obviously Captain Scarlet has that ability but wasn't it hinted at that this was more of an accidental byproduct rather than deliberate intent by the Mysterons to give him the ability to regenerate?

The reason I ask is that I can't recall seeing any Mysteronised characters actually recovering from their injuries.

Contrary to generally accepted fanon, my son actually made me aware of his special qualities (see my signature) and I believe I can answer this question for you, my primate friend.

The generally accepted theory, as Elentari points out, is that once they have done their "Mysteron duty" they are no longer needed and disposed of. I can think of only two instances in the actual series where Mysterons "woke up" and tried again before being killed: Indigo in "Spectrum Strikes Back" and Mervin Brand in "The Launching." Then again, they may not have been "dead" but simply wanted one final try at their quarry.

[Ochrefan21]

I think that the reason the mysterons threaten to assassinate officials like the director general, supreme commander of eartch forces,the trimuvirate of europe and Andre Verdain is so that they can re-construct them and probably build up an army of mysteron objects and people. Probably so many that gradually the world has no from of defence.

[Skybase Girl]

There is no evidence of this, Ochrefan21.

The Mysterons game plan appears to be just that - a game. It would seem that such an advanced civilisation could wipe Earth out without too much effort. The fact that instead, they choose to partake in a "War of Nerves" suggests they are toying with earthlings, either for their own amusement, or for a reason not divulged.

Either way, there doesn't seem to be any evidence to suggest that Mysteron constructs are kept "alive" as an expanding army, once they have outlived the purpose for which they were reconstructed in the first place.

[Ochrefan21]

I have often wondwered if the mysterons can take over people directly. In POINT 783 the tanker driver carries on driving towards Storm and Brooks and doesn't respond to his mate!

Also if the mysterons could take over humans directly how would these humans die or would could be releived of control and survive like Scarlet?