Can Captain Scarlet die of natural causes?
Moderator: Spectrum Strike Force
Can Captain Scarlet die of natural causes?
by Marion W » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:07 am
Originally posted in first forum, around Christmas 2003. Since then, transported to MSN Forum. Following answered where done during first months of 2004.
They did not expect him to die from the effects of the virulent virus in 'Place of the Angels' even though they put him in quarantine with Captain Blue - who would have died - if they had been exposed to it.
Natural causes might weaken him and perhaps over time he'd be too weak to cure himself.
The alternative is immortality - unless he gets electrocuted first, of course.
If he's immortal - will he age or stay the same? Perhaps he'll age but be unable to die.... like Cohen the Barbarian from the Discworld.
True enough - but they put him in with Blue - so if only one of them had it to start with, they both would have it thereafter. Blue might have caught it from Scarlet and vice versa....
Not very practical these medical people at times....
Marion W
GUEST: I know Captain Scarlet is indestructible against bullets and explosions but can he die of natural causes?
They did not expect him to die from the effects of the virulent virus in 'Place of the Angels' even though they put him in quarantine with Captain Blue - who would have died - if they had been exposed to it.
Natural causes might weaken him and perhaps over time he'd be too weak to cure himself.
The alternative is immortality - unless he gets electrocuted first, of course.
If he's immortal - will he age or stay the same? Perhaps he'll age but be unable to die.... like Cohen the Barbarian from the Discworld.
I think the reason why Scarlet was quarantined in that episode was due to the fact that he may not die from the virus but other people could still catch it from him.
True enough - but they put him in with Blue - so if only one of them had it to start with, they both would have it thereafter. Blue might have caught it from Scarlet and vice versa....
Not very practical these medical people at times....
Marion W
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Marion W
by SL » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:08 am
Yeah, and there's another thing about putting Scarlet and Blue together, too. I don't think it would have done Scarlet much good, seeing his best friend ill and being unable to do anything about it. Good thing it was a false alarm, I'd say!
SL
SL
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SL
by DocBrown » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:09 am
I’d like to believe that he will eventually die of natural causes. That's got nothing to do with pseudo-science, but simply because he’s the hero of the piece, and he deserves better than to be condemned to eternal youth when his friends, colleagues and relations grow old and die around him. It’s a long time since I saw it, but I seem to remember that the first movie in the “Highlander” series showed immortality under those circumstances for what it would really be, producing a man who would shun companionship and love for fear of hurting others, or being himself hurt. The original Star Trek series looked at the topic in “Requiem for Methuselah”, coming to pretty much the same conclusion, I seem to remember. Poor Scarlet has a terrible enough cross to bear: the awesome gift that he has been given carries with it the responsibility to use it for the good of his people – and that effectively condemns him to die, die and die again. I’d like to believe that it isn’t a curse that he has to bear in perpetuity.
DocBrown
DocBrown
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DocBrown
by DocDenim » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:10 am
Interesting question, but I think the answer is yes - providing he doesn't get done in before he has time to do it. And by that I mean that if he's left alone (alive and uninjured, that is) long enough, I'm sure he'd age 'naturally' - grey hair (I somehow can't visualize male pattern baldness here), wrinkles, that sort of thing....but if he managed to get himself bumped off one way or another, even accidentally, I think that the retrometabolism would kick him back to his 'original' copied state. I believe I blathered about this somewhere else in the forum - and that the retrometabolism is a physiological reset of sorts - Scarlet 'reboots' to the Mysterons’ original template when bad things happen to him.
It would be another interesting question as to how much deviation from the 'pattern' would be required before the reboot would 'activate' - supposing it's a minor as a paper cut, then I'd have to assume he's doomed to live forever (even if he's below average clumsy) or if there's a 'threshold' that has to be crossed....and if we go there, then we also have to ask at what point the retrometabolism will fail to save Scarlet - if he's incinerated or dismembered, or eaten alive (just for examples), then what 'raw material' is the retrometabolism left to work with? (There are theories that can save him from that, too.)
I'm quite convinced that Scarlet worries about this stuff!
DocDenim
It would be another interesting question as to how much deviation from the 'pattern' would be required before the reboot would 'activate' - supposing it's a minor as a paper cut, then I'd have to assume he's doomed to live forever (even if he's below average clumsy) or if there's a 'threshold' that has to be crossed....and if we go there, then we also have to ask at what point the retrometabolism will fail to save Scarlet - if he's incinerated or dismembered, or eaten alive (just for examples), then what 'raw material' is the retrometabolism left to work with? (There are theories that can save him from that, too.)
I'm quite convinced that Scarlet worries about this stuff!
DocDenim
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DocDenim
by Marion W » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:11 am
It would seem to me that the original series wants us to believe Scarlet will die eventually.
I base this on the fact that:
I think I remember reading that it had been the original idea to have Fawn reconstruct him as a 'cyborg' but that was abandoned as not being something the audience would be able to empathise strongly with. (There is certainly a hint of that approach at the end of the first CS audio tape.)
Why the retrometabolism works - I can't imagine (and am far too ignorant of the science fact/fiction elements to cross swords with the Docs on that one!) but like the Docs, I would hope he will be able to die eventually.
We have assumed (in several of the fiction stories on Chris's site) that Scarlet can't get drunk - or at least that it takes an enormous amount of alcohol for him to get drunk and it doesn't last and he never gets a hangover (don't you just hate some people?) so maybe the same thing happens with regard to ageing?
I would hate to see him immortal - and have to watch his friends age and die around him - or the alternative (which is probably worse) that he ages indefinitely and becomes frail and decrepit - and can't die. So I salve my fears with the thought that he might just live a very long time... ageing slowly - but ageing all the same!
Poor Scarlet - he really did get the short straw on this one!
Marion W
I base this on the fact that:
- 1. Doctor Fawn says he is 'virtually indestructible' and we learn, in a later episode, that he may be susceptible to electricity.
2. Scarlet himself is not always sure he will recover - especially when he faces a 'new' method of dying... once he has survived that death, it seems he doesn't worry so much the next time he has to face it.
3. His friends still worry about him - even when they know he is, most likely, going to survive.
I think I remember reading that it had been the original idea to have Fawn reconstruct him as a 'cyborg' but that was abandoned as not being something the audience would be able to empathise strongly with. (There is certainly a hint of that approach at the end of the first CS audio tape.)
Why the retrometabolism works - I can't imagine (and am far too ignorant of the science fact/fiction elements to cross swords with the Docs on that one!) but like the Docs, I would hope he will be able to die eventually.
We have assumed (in several of the fiction stories on Chris's site) that Scarlet can't get drunk - or at least that it takes an enormous amount of alcohol for him to get drunk and it doesn't last and he never gets a hangover (don't you just hate some people?) so maybe the same thing happens with regard to ageing?
I would hate to see him immortal - and have to watch his friends age and die around him - or the alternative (which is probably worse) that he ages indefinitely and becomes frail and decrepit - and can't die. So I salve my fears with the thought that he might just live a very long time... ageing slowly - but ageing all the same!
Poor Scarlet - he really did get the short straw on this one!
Marion W
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Marion W
by SL » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:12 am
I've often thought about this subject, and tried to work out what I think about the effects the retrometabolism could have on Scarlet. I haven't really come up with anything worth shouting about - I suppose I've just re-visited theories that others have already come up with and mentioned. I think the thing that would be most likely effected is his mental health - the seriousness of the effect depending on the situations that unfold, and his own character (which, let's face it, is pretty tough, to put it mildly.)
Still, every theory that has sprung to mind has had their drawbacks for the poor Captain - I certainly wouldn't envy him!
SL
Still, every theory that has sprung to mind has had their drawbacks for the poor Captain - I certainly wouldn't envy him!
SL
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SL
by DocBrown » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:14 am
Do we actually know that he’s indestructible? I mean, I’m happy to accept that he’s as indestructible as the next Mysteronised reconstruction, but the only real evidence we’ve got that he’s genuinely indestructible is Doctor Fawn’s assessment of him at the end of Episode 1 – and that was based on his having recovered from his tumble off the Car-Vu. Now, given that the Mysterons have powers that we cannot hope to understand and all that, on what basis did Doctor Fawn make the leap from diagnosing that he’s capable of recovering from a fall to saying that he can recover from anything whatsoever?
What I’m getting at is that we don’t know he’s indestructible at all. All we know is that he can recover from anything that’s been thrown at him so far. I’m thinking that Doctor Fawn may have got it wrong, and that he simply hasn’t been hit with something serious enough to kill him – like Denim’s scenarios of being incinerated, dismembered or eaten alive. We’ve never seen a scenario where a Mysteronised reconstruction has recovered from something as serious as any of these fates, and I can’t see why we should assume that they can, unless their masters can step in and reconstruct them a second time. The best they can manage to date is that they’ve recovered from being shot, isn’t it?
Anyway, if that’s the case, then we’ve got two types of retrometabolism: the one that recreates them in the first place, and a process that’s effectively nothing more than an enhanced version of our own normal regenerative capability – which like ours probably has its limitations. And if that's right, there's no particular reason to suppose that he won't die of natural causes - though it'll probably take more than a bout of double pneumonia to finish him off when he reaches the sort of age at which most human lives come to an end.
I’m voting for that scenario - so I reckon the Spectrum pop group will have to re-record the closing piece of music so that the final line goes:
“Virtually Indestructible - Captain Scarlet (Subject to status, terms and conditions apply)”
Bom bom, bom bombombom bom
DocBrown
What I’m getting at is that we don’t know he’s indestructible at all. All we know is that he can recover from anything that’s been thrown at him so far. I’m thinking that Doctor Fawn may have got it wrong, and that he simply hasn’t been hit with something serious enough to kill him – like Denim’s scenarios of being incinerated, dismembered or eaten alive. We’ve never seen a scenario where a Mysteronised reconstruction has recovered from something as serious as any of these fates, and I can’t see why we should assume that they can, unless their masters can step in and reconstruct them a second time. The best they can manage to date is that they’ve recovered from being shot, isn’t it?
Anyway, if that’s the case, then we’ve got two types of retrometabolism: the one that recreates them in the first place, and a process that’s effectively nothing more than an enhanced version of our own normal regenerative capability – which like ours probably has its limitations. And if that's right, there's no particular reason to suppose that he won't die of natural causes - though it'll probably take more than a bout of double pneumonia to finish him off when he reaches the sort of age at which most human lives come to an end.
I’m voting for that scenario - so I reckon the Spectrum pop group will have to re-record the closing piece of music so that the final line goes:
“Virtually Indestructible - Captain Scarlet (Subject to status, terms and conditions apply)”
Bom bom, bom bombombom bom
DocBrown
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DocBrown
by Marion W » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:15 am
)Following on from the question of whether Captain Scarlet would die of natural causes - is the question of just exactly what is repaired by his retrometabolism?
For example - the young Paul Metcalfe may have had his tonsils removed - its not unknown - so when Captain Scarlet fell from the Car-Vu and recovered on Cloudbase did he discover that he had his tonsils once more?
I suppose it depends on what you believe retrometabolism to be - does it create a perfect human being every time or only return a body to the condition it was in before the injury?
So if Scarlet had been suffering from a headache on the fateful day - would he always have a headache subsequently? (Might explain what has happened to his sense of humour, I guess
)
Any thoughts?
Marion W
For example - the young Paul Metcalfe may have had his tonsils removed - its not unknown - so when Captain Scarlet fell from the Car-Vu and recovered on Cloudbase did he discover that he had his tonsils once more?
I suppose it depends on what you believe retrometabolism to be - does it create a perfect human being every time or only return a body to the condition it was in before the injury?
So if Scarlet had been suffering from a headache on the fateful day - would he always have a headache subsequently? (Might explain what has happened to his sense of humour, I guess
)
Any thoughts?
Marion W
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Marion W
by chrisbishop » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:17 am
I would say that when the Mysterons replicate a dead person, they replicate him/her 'as is'. Meaning, if the person suffered from a sight impairment, then the replicate will too, and will have to wear glasses like the original. If the original had a gold tooth, the gold tooth will be replicated too. If he had a limp, the replicate will limp. And so on... If not, what would be the use of having a spy, or a double agent, who not the perfect copy of the dead person he was copied from? The 'repair' would give the replicate away. It may be argued that if the said physical deficience would impair the replicate's mission, the Mysterons would probably repair it - mind you, but in that case, I suppose it would have to be something that is not apparent. Personally, I don't think so.
Remember the line from the opening credits:
"The Mysterons... [...] able to recreate an exact likeness of an object or a person..."
That would tend to prove the previous point.
That SAID... I came up with a theory, after a chat with some friends on that same subject.
We have Scarlet. He was a Mysteron replicate who had broke free of the Mysterons' control, and had somehow regained his original mind - trapped into a new body, apparently perfect and impervuous to injuries - well, most injuries - having retained the power of retrometabolism. Here, Doc Brown - I make the difference between 'Mysteronisation' and 'Retrometabolism'. 'Mysteronisation' would be the process in which the Mysterons recreate a person or object and put him/her/it under their control. 'Retrometabolism': the power to rejuvenate. You may correct me if I'm wrong, but aside from the Mysteron Complex itself (And I would tend to think that it doesn't count), I have no memory of an object being able to retrometabolise in the TV series. When it was destroyed, it stayed destroyed - whereas a mysteronised person COULD - but not always, and it may depend on the mission given to that person - heal from his/her wounds.
So let's say that that retrometabolism is an extension of the natural healing process in any living creature - multiplied tenfold, to an incredible level. In the case of a 'recent duplication' - if the duplicate happened to be injured in the course of his mission and needs to be healed in order for him to continue this mission, retrometabolism would kick in. As we know, duplicates don't live very long - just the time for them to perform their missions. The Mysterons don't give much after-thoughts in recreating them after the mission, whether it had succeeded or failed.
As for the question of possible returning tonsils - or fillings in teeth, or old scars that would have disappeared - I think it COULD be possible, if retrometabolism is given the time to allow the repair of those 'injuries' - after it had taken care of the initial injuries, for example, it might continue to repair the body completely... Captain Scarlet is, by far, the duplicate who had lived the longest with that power (WHY he has retained it exactly, and WHY he had broken from the Mysterons' powers is a question for another time). So it might be possible that... tonsils will return (Take the hint, Marion! )
Incidentally, although I had used the word sometimes in stories, I do not think, in no uncertain terms, that Captain Scarlet, nor any Mysteron agents are "CLONES". In the series, they are not referred to as clones, but as 'replicates' or 'duplicate', or even 'copies'. I think I personally use the word 'clone' when in a specific story, Scarlet was trying to describe Mysteronisation as a similar 'somehow similar to cloning - sort of.' (Try to describe WHAT Mysteronisation is to a non-initiate - it isn't THAT easy, I'm sure!). Mysterons recreate OBJECTS just as well as people. You can't clone an object... It's not a living, breathing creature, composed of organic material - which would certainly give weight to the effect that Mysteronisation is NOT cloning.
Remember the line from the opening credits:
"The Mysterons... [...] able to recreate an exact likeness of an object or a person..."
That would tend to prove the previous point.
That SAID... I came up with a theory, after a chat with some friends on that same subject.
We have Scarlet. He was a Mysteron replicate who had broke free of the Mysterons' control, and had somehow regained his original mind - trapped into a new body, apparently perfect and impervuous to injuries - well, most injuries - having retained the power of retrometabolism. Here, Doc Brown - I make the difference between 'Mysteronisation' and 'Retrometabolism'. 'Mysteronisation' would be the process in which the Mysterons recreate a person or object and put him/her/it under their control. 'Retrometabolism': the power to rejuvenate. You may correct me if I'm wrong, but aside from the Mysteron Complex itself (And I would tend to think that it doesn't count), I have no memory of an object being able to retrometabolise in the TV series. When it was destroyed, it stayed destroyed - whereas a mysteronised person COULD - but not always, and it may depend on the mission given to that person - heal from his/her wounds.
So let's say that that retrometabolism is an extension of the natural healing process in any living creature - multiplied tenfold, to an incredible level. In the case of a 'recent duplication' - if the duplicate happened to be injured in the course of his mission and needs to be healed in order for him to continue this mission, retrometabolism would kick in. As we know, duplicates don't live very long - just the time for them to perform their missions. The Mysterons don't give much after-thoughts in recreating them after the mission, whether it had succeeded or failed.
As for the question of possible returning tonsils - or fillings in teeth, or old scars that would have disappeared - I think it COULD be possible, if retrometabolism is given the time to allow the repair of those 'injuries' - after it had taken care of the initial injuries, for example, it might continue to repair the body completely... Captain Scarlet is, by far, the duplicate who had lived the longest with that power (WHY he has retained it exactly, and WHY he had broken from the Mysterons' powers is a question for another time). So it might be possible that... tonsils will return (Take the hint, Marion!
)
Incidentally, although I had used the word sometimes in stories, I do not think, in no uncertain terms, that Captain Scarlet, nor any Mysteron agents are "CLONES". In the series, they are not referred to as clones, but as 'replicates' or 'duplicate', or even 'copies'. I think I personally use the word 'clone' when in a specific story, Scarlet was trying to describe Mysteronisation as a similar 'somehow similar to cloning - sort of.' (Try to describe WHAT Mysteronisation is to a non-initiate - it isn't THAT easy, I'm sure!). Mysterons recreate OBJECTS just as well as people. You can't clone an object... It's not a living, breathing creature, composed of organic material - which would certainly give weight to the effect that Mysteronisation is NOT cloning.
Chris Bishop,
Webmaster and administrator of http://www.spectrum-headquarters.com
"This is an operational base, not a rest centre!"
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"This is an operational base, not a rest centre!"
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by DocBrown » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:19 am
That’s very much as I see it too. I see the ability for wounds to heal as very much an enhanced extension of our own healing process – so if Scarlet cuts his finger, it’ll heal as an ordinary human’s would, but at a dramatically speeded-up rate. As to his tonsils, I suppose it rather depends on whether a normal human could under any circumstances grow a new set of tonsils. If they could, then Scarlet could do it too – but faster. We’ve been discussing the rather different business of extremely gruesome deaths like dismemberment or complete disintegration for as long as I can remember, and I can’t see us reaching any consensus on that – because it simply isn’t obvious what would happen in Scarlet’s case. If he were cut to pieces, would all the pieces magically rearrange themselves? If he was vaporized in an atomic explosion, would he come back? It’s difficult to see how, unless he’s re-retrometabolised out of thin air in the same way that he was created in the first place. Best to avoid these scenarios in any fan-fics if you ask me!
Incidentally, in reading the time-travel review to which I’ve just added a link in another thread (“Mysteron Parlour Tricks”), one story caught my eye, namely "The Fourth Dimensional Demonstrator" (1935) by Murray Leinster, in which he apparently describes a machine that duplicates matter by bringing the same object (from the past) forward. Has anybody ever read this story, by any chance? There’s a website dedicated to him at http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/leinster.html, and this tale is mentioned in the “Stories” section under “A-L”.
DocBrown
Incidentally, in reading the time-travel review to which I’ve just added a link in another thread (“Mysteron Parlour Tricks”), one story caught my eye, namely "The Fourth Dimensional Demonstrator" (1935) by Murray Leinster, in which he apparently describes a machine that duplicates matter by bringing the same object (from the past) forward. Has anybody ever read this story, by any chance? There’s a website dedicated to him at http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/leinster.html, and this tale is mentioned in the “Stories” section under “A-L”.
DocBrown
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DocBrown
by FlicCity » Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:41 pm
Just one question which sort-of applies to this subject - if Captain Scarlet was cut in half (yes, I'm sick, but hear me out here) and the two halves were separated and then left alone for however long might be necessary (we've already established that I'm sick) would the result be two Captain Scarlets? Or would he just die? Any thoughts on that, Doc Denim?
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by Doc Denim » Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:25 am
hey Flic City!
I have an answer for this, I just have to organize my thoughts and resurrect an old post. But the quick answer is, the Mysterons will take both halves away and restore the original - you won't get two Scarlets, for what I call 'technical' reasons, and upon which I will expound next time.....
(BTW - assessment of mental health has never, to my knowledge, been a prerequisite for participation in this or earlier forums.....)
Doc Denim
I have an answer for this, I just have to organize my thoughts and resurrect an old post. But the quick answer is, the Mysterons will take both halves away and restore the original - you won't get two Scarlets, for what I call 'technical' reasons, and upon which I will expound next time.....
(BTW - assessment of mental health has never, to my knowledge, been a prerequisite for participation in this or earlier forums.....)
Doc Denim
...no one expected an Australian Inqusition....
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by chrisbishop » Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:43 am
FLIC!!!!!! 
You ARE sick!!!!!
Kidding aside, that suggestion reminds me of some legends of old - where a hero would fight an immortal enemy and somehow find a way to kill him. Then he would cut him in many pieces and have all the pieced buried on the four corners of Earth - so to prevent him from coming back again. Can't remember a specific legend, actually... And I'm sure there is MORE than one on that subject...
Mmm... I think it would probably be VERY difficult for Scarlet to 'put himself together' on these conditions (yuck!). I can't imagine the two parts regrowing what's missing (re-yuck!) and so, I don't think we would end up with two Scarlets (Mysteron members of this site, DO NOT comment!
).
Have you read LadyHawke's story 'Project Kingsilver'? In one of the scenes, Scarlet has one of his hands cut off during a sword fight. A little later on in the story, the hand is bandaged to the wrist by Captain Blue, in order to let his retrometabolism to do its natural job and 'reattach' the missing limb to its right place.
So....... In order for him to heal from the kind of injury Flic described (urrrrggg...) the two parts would have to be put together first, 'reunited', 'put in presence of one another' (and yuck again... visions of Frankenstein all of a sudden...).
Excuse me while I'll go to the Head...
You ARE sick!!!!!
Kidding aside, that suggestion reminds me of some legends of old - where a hero would fight an immortal enemy and somehow find a way to kill him. Then he would cut him in many pieces and have all the pieced buried on the four corners of Earth - so to prevent him from coming back again. Can't remember a specific legend, actually... And I'm sure there is MORE than one on that subject...
Mmm... I think it would probably be VERY difficult for Scarlet to 'put himself together' on these conditions (yuck!). I can't imagine the two parts regrowing what's missing (re-yuck!) and so, I don't think we would end up with two Scarlets (Mysteron members of this site, DO NOT comment!
).
Have you read LadyHawke's story 'Project Kingsilver'? In one of the scenes, Scarlet has one of his hands cut off during a sword fight. A little later on in the story, the hand is bandaged to the wrist by Captain Blue, in order to let his retrometabolism to do its natural job and 'reattach' the missing limb to its right place.
So....... In order for him to heal from the kind of injury Flic described (urrrrggg...) the two parts would have to be put together first, 'reunited', 'put in presence of one another' (and yuck again... visions of Frankenstein all of a sudden...).
Excuse me while I'll go to the Head...
Chris Bishop,
Webmaster and administrator of http://www.spectrum-headquarters.com
"This is an operational base, not a rest centre!"
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"This is an operational base, not a rest centre!"
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by Doc Denim » Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:38 pm
Hey Flic City! (and anyone else who’s interested)
This may seem like a long and convoluted response to the question asked just a post or so ago, but, please bear with it, I think/hope things will become clear before we’re done….due apologies to anyone who’s seen (and been bored) by it on prior occasions!
And, BTW – the question posed, about the grim possibility of Scarlet falling victim to a radical dismemberment and what might happen next, isn’t as horribly unreasonable as it might first sound. Dreadful things DO happen to fragile human bodies in the course of vehicle crashes during accidents (airborne or ground-bound), never mind what can happen if you’re a favorite and deliberate target…..besides, planaria (flatworms) and polyps (hydra) are able to re-grow complete, healthy multiple duplicates of themselves when bits are severed off, and that’s without any help from the Mysterons. so: here's yet another resurrected Siobhan-blather for inquiring minds.
Mysteron Constructs and Scarlet in particular:
The way I have things figured (and please refer freely to But What Is A Mysteron, Really? – under The Mysterons, Origin of the Mysterons thread) a Construct, once created for War of Nerves purposes, is ‘fed’ instruction directly and/or monitored closely from the Martian complex until Spectrum either resolves the current threat and destroys the reconstruction, or Spectrum loses and the Mysterons then ‘withdraw’ the Construct themselves. I also figure that these undefeated Constructs are dematerialized back into that ‘other dimension” from whence they came in the first place; that way, no one really has to worry about them afterwards – they just vanish. (The series never did really indicate what happened with non-destroyed reconstructions.) Hard science buff that I am, not even the Mysterons can create something out of nothing, matter and energy being neither created or destroyed in this particular 3D space-time of ours. So, once they’ve scanned a lifeform/object for the Construct’s ‘template’ they use their ‘other dimensional’ resources to build the copy and then transfer it ‘through’ (a process that seems instantaneous, but probably isn’t). But they still have to answer to Physics, and when they can, meaning when they win, they put the Construct’s raw materials back where they found them. A Construct ‘costs’ them in ways that we don’t yet understand (and might never), but this is, to my mind, good Conservation of Matter and Energy.
And to digress for a moment to a point made in the above mentioned essay, I would like to clearly differentiate between short term (phase I) Constructs for threat-specific War purposes, and Captain Scarlet – whom I have identified in previous posts as a long term phase II Construct with an on-going (and unbeknownst to all, including Scarlet) role as a passive data collector for the Mysterons. A phase II Construct is a lifeform that the Mysterons have decided to ‘assimilate’ and make one of their own. But they only keep their phase I’s until they don’t need them anymore – then they’re dematerialized and the template stored for future reference – the lifeform/object, therefore, is never truly lost – no one is ever truly dead – since the Mysterons can create another one whenever they need or want to.
Which brings me to a very important discussion of the episode Treble Cross, which is the very one that got me thinking about these things and ultimately led me to the majority of my many and convoluted conclusions. Why, you may be asking, if the Mysterons can create another Scarlet on demand, why don’t they just do that and mess Spectrum up good? And the answer to that is some speculative pseudo-Physics again; I have decided that the whole reason the Mysterons have to destroy an original object or person in the first place is precisely BECAUSE the recreated Construct IS an Exact and absolutely Identical person or object, right down to its energy flux and particle spin. It (the copy) will cause all sorts of strange resonances and interdimensional disturbances with the original, if that original still exists, much the way a tuning fork will set off another identical tuning fork when struck. Such resonances are simply no good for either continuum, and are to be avoided at all costs.
But what about Major Gravener in Treble Cross? Well, the Mysterons Did Know that they weren’t dealing with their own Construct anymore – for one thing, they know what’s going on with their Constructs all the time, and for another (and while they don’t often take advantage of it) they know what Scarlet’s doing all the time too; the point being, that there would have been no way for Spectrum to hide the fact that they’d done in the reconstructed Gravener from them. But even if Spectrum had been able to keep it a secret, the Mysterons would still have been able to pick up on the resonant disturbances as soon as the real Major had recovered. Disturbances that may have been milder and less damaging than usual: a) because there was a time delay, and b) because the Major was injured and therefore no longer identical to their Construct. So, when Spectrum destroyed the Construct, they simply played along with the real Major, seeing as that’s the way the game went; and of course it didn’t hurt much either, to let Spectrum go along thinking that they’d learned something useful about the Mysterons which was totally erroneous.
And to digress yet again, this time to another ‘lost’ post from the Old Forum, specifically How Does He Do It?, I’d just like to reiterate that I don’t think Scarlet retrometabolises by himself – He does it with a lot of help from his friendly neighbourhood Mysterons, who are happy to restore his beaten and mangled body (dead or injured) to its original ‘templated’ blueprint, which they keep on file in their data banks on Mars, and are kind enough to update with current up-to-the-minute information. In my opinion (and that's all it is) this isn’t an in-built, Scarlet-specific ability, it’s Mysteron bestowed and maintained. If such ‘recovery’ was just a physiological ‘reset’ then I would have to think that his memories would always also revert back to the Saloon crash that killed Scarlet in the opening episode – so to my mind, there has to be far more going on than just that as regards Scarlet’s retrometabolism.
And finally, to answer the question of "Scarlet divided" directly: I happen to think that the Mysterons would simply ‘recover’ both (or however many) pieces of Scarlet they can, and would restore them according to the blueprint – even if bits were missing they’d just be able to fill in the gaps with their ‘other dimensional’ resources, the same stuff that the original Construct was made from. Which means, bottom line, there’s really nothing that Scarlet can’t actually ‘recover’ from – even if he goes missing entirely: incinerated to ash, eaten alive, dismembered or whatever other gruesome happenstances anyone can think of---
All for now! Enjoy! Hope that will answer the question to some level of satisfaction!
Ciao for now
Doc Denim
PS – Doc Brown’s original response to this one is also very worthy of a repeat post – I hope when he gets back from holidays he’ll dig it up and add it on…..
This may seem like a long and convoluted response to the question asked just a post or so ago, but, please bear with it, I think/hope things will become clear before we’re done….due apologies to anyone who’s seen (and been bored) by it on prior occasions!
And, BTW – the question posed, about the grim possibility of Scarlet falling victim to a radical dismemberment and what might happen next, isn’t as horribly unreasonable as it might first sound. Dreadful things DO happen to fragile human bodies in the course of vehicle crashes during accidents (airborne or ground-bound), never mind what can happen if you’re a favorite and deliberate target…..besides, planaria (flatworms) and polyps (hydra) are able to re-grow complete, healthy multiple duplicates of themselves when bits are severed off, and that’s without any help from the Mysterons. so: here's yet another resurrected Siobhan-blather for inquiring minds.
Mysteron Constructs and Scarlet in particular:
The way I have things figured (and please refer freely to But What Is A Mysteron, Really? – under The Mysterons, Origin of the Mysterons thread) a Construct, once created for War of Nerves purposes, is ‘fed’ instruction directly and/or monitored closely from the Martian complex until Spectrum either resolves the current threat and destroys the reconstruction, or Spectrum loses and the Mysterons then ‘withdraw’ the Construct themselves. I also figure that these undefeated Constructs are dematerialized back into that ‘other dimension” from whence they came in the first place; that way, no one really has to worry about them afterwards – they just vanish. (The series never did really indicate what happened with non-destroyed reconstructions.) Hard science buff that I am, not even the Mysterons can create something out of nothing, matter and energy being neither created or destroyed in this particular 3D space-time of ours. So, once they’ve scanned a lifeform/object for the Construct’s ‘template’ they use their ‘other dimensional’ resources to build the copy and then transfer it ‘through’ (a process that seems instantaneous, but probably isn’t). But they still have to answer to Physics, and when they can, meaning when they win, they put the Construct’s raw materials back where they found them. A Construct ‘costs’ them in ways that we don’t yet understand (and might never), but this is, to my mind, good Conservation of Matter and Energy.
And to digress for a moment to a point made in the above mentioned essay, I would like to clearly differentiate between short term (phase I) Constructs for threat-specific War purposes, and Captain Scarlet – whom I have identified in previous posts as a long term phase II Construct with an on-going (and unbeknownst to all, including Scarlet) role as a passive data collector for the Mysterons. A phase II Construct is a lifeform that the Mysterons have decided to ‘assimilate’ and make one of their own. But they only keep their phase I’s until they don’t need them anymore – then they’re dematerialized and the template stored for future reference – the lifeform/object, therefore, is never truly lost – no one is ever truly dead – since the Mysterons can create another one whenever they need or want to.
Which brings me to a very important discussion of the episode Treble Cross, which is the very one that got me thinking about these things and ultimately led me to the majority of my many and convoluted conclusions. Why, you may be asking, if the Mysterons can create another Scarlet on demand, why don’t they just do that and mess Spectrum up good? And the answer to that is some speculative pseudo-Physics again; I have decided that the whole reason the Mysterons have to destroy an original object or person in the first place is precisely BECAUSE the recreated Construct IS an Exact and absolutely Identical person or object, right down to its energy flux and particle spin. It (the copy) will cause all sorts of strange resonances and interdimensional disturbances with the original, if that original still exists, much the way a tuning fork will set off another identical tuning fork when struck. Such resonances are simply no good for either continuum, and are to be avoided at all costs.
But what about Major Gravener in Treble Cross? Well, the Mysterons Did Know that they weren’t dealing with their own Construct anymore – for one thing, they know what’s going on with their Constructs all the time, and for another (and while they don’t often take advantage of it) they know what Scarlet’s doing all the time too; the point being, that there would have been no way for Spectrum to hide the fact that they’d done in the reconstructed Gravener from them. But even if Spectrum had been able to keep it a secret, the Mysterons would still have been able to pick up on the resonant disturbances as soon as the real Major had recovered. Disturbances that may have been milder and less damaging than usual: a) because there was a time delay, and b) because the Major was injured and therefore no longer identical to their Construct. So, when Spectrum destroyed the Construct, they simply played along with the real Major, seeing as that’s the way the game went; and of course it didn’t hurt much either, to let Spectrum go along thinking that they’d learned something useful about the Mysterons which was totally erroneous.
And to digress yet again, this time to another ‘lost’ post from the Old Forum, specifically How Does He Do It?, I’d just like to reiterate that I don’t think Scarlet retrometabolises by himself – He does it with a lot of help from his friendly neighbourhood Mysterons, who are happy to restore his beaten and mangled body (dead or injured) to its original ‘templated’ blueprint, which they keep on file in their data banks on Mars, and are kind enough to update with current up-to-the-minute information. In my opinion (and that's all it is) this isn’t an in-built, Scarlet-specific ability, it’s Mysteron bestowed and maintained. If such ‘recovery’ was just a physiological ‘reset’ then I would have to think that his memories would always also revert back to the Saloon crash that killed Scarlet in the opening episode – so to my mind, there has to be far more going on than just that as regards Scarlet’s retrometabolism.
And finally, to answer the question of "Scarlet divided" directly: I happen to think that the Mysterons would simply ‘recover’ both (or however many) pieces of Scarlet they can, and would restore them according to the blueprint – even if bits were missing they’d just be able to fill in the gaps with their ‘other dimensional’ resources, the same stuff that the original Construct was made from. Which means, bottom line, there’s really nothing that Scarlet can’t actually ‘recover’ from – even if he goes missing entirely: incinerated to ash, eaten alive, dismembered or whatever other gruesome happenstances anyone can think of---
All for now! Enjoy! Hope that will answer the question to some level of satisfaction!
Ciao for now
Doc Denim
PS – Doc Brown’s original response to this one is also very worthy of a repeat post – I hope when he gets back from holidays he’ll dig it up and add it on…..
...no one expected an Australian Inqusition....
-
Doc Denim
- Cloudbase Captain
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by FlicCity » Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:02 am
Thanks for explaining that, Doc. There's some interesting points in your hypotheses, but I'm not 100% convinced.
Sorry I freaked you out, Chris
It wasn't intentional. (Exactly.) I just wanted an answer, because it occurred to me that if there was a possibility of Captain Scarlet being -- 'twinned', shall we say? -- then the Mysterons might be able to make use of one of him... (That might not have come out right, but I'm sure that you can understand what I meant!)
Sorry I freaked you out, Chris
It wasn't intentional. (Exactly.) I just wanted an answer, because it occurred to me that if there was a possibility of Captain Scarlet being -- 'twinned', shall we say? -- then the Mysterons might be able to make use of one of him... (That might not have come out right, but I'm sure that you can understand what I meant!)-
FlicCity
- Cadet
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- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:36 am
- Location: Earth
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