Q about transplants/organ donation

[Sage]

Have this as a most stubborn plot bunny. Details are a little sketchy, and my medical knowledge is basically GCSE biology and a first aid course. So bear with me.

Say, for whatever reason, one of the captains/angels needed a transplant of some cells that had to be taken from someone living or recently died. Specifically cells from the brain, that are necessary for cognitive function and working memory (schwan cells ... umm well that's roughly how it's pronounced)

Would it be possible to harvest them from Scarlet?
Surely he would be fine in the end because his retrometabolism would just replace whatever had been taken out.

Far as I know these cells can be transfered between normal people and there not be a risk of rejection or need for specific matches.
Even so in this case would it now work because the recipient would reject them. As they have been 'tainted' by retrometabolism.

Ah but then if it was a success would these cells have any effect on the rest of the body, with regard retrometabolism (could it grown virus-like and make them indestructible).

Jeez this is complicated. I never normally consider writing stories that require this kind of technical knowlede, but this idea is not shifting. So I'd like to give it a shot.

Thanks

[Captain Indigo]

schwan cells ... umm well that's roughly how it's pronounced

Very close - it's Schwann cells. Basically, they form the protective layer around nerve cells.

I'll get back to you on transplanting them, as I don't think it's something that is done at the moment. I'll have to do a bit of reading.

Feel free to PM me, Sage, if you need to know anything that would give your plot away.

Details are a little sketchy, and my medical knowledge is basically GCSE biology and a first aid course.

I'm impressed that you remember something like that from GCSE! I can barely remember what I did yesterday, let alone something that I may have studied for my GCSEs!

[Sage]

Oh thanks
Well I guess we can have poetic license as CS is set in the future. Just wanted to figure out if it was possible, how it woukld be done etc.

Now I know how to spell it will do some of my own reading up.

LOL nah it was only four years ago but I'vde forgetten most my biology stuff. Was never really into science (was even worse at chemistry). Don't think we learnt about anything that complex anyway.

I actually came across the premise on another show, the invisible man. That's what gave me the story idea, or at least to try it with CS.

[DartBrat701]

I never really got into biology in school, it was Earth Science, Chemistry & Physics for me!

[Intensity Angel]

Lucky I study A-Level Biology,

Yes these cells can be transplanted from normal people into normal people. But with Captain scarlet, his DNA sequence has been altered.

Let me put this into an explanation,

If Captain scarlet was injured, say he's been injected with a poison or something similar. A Primary Immune Response will occur. In other other words, Scarlet's body would make antibodies to destroy the poison and at the same time destroy the cells that have been infected. Mitosis (the division of cells) will replace the lost cells.

But Mitosis in Scarlet's body would be much quicker.

Because his cells have the increase in speed Mitosis would happen at a faster rate. Now if some of his cells were injected into another person. Mitosis of those cells would remain the same and rgenerate, meaning that person within a small space of time would be able to regenerate Schwann cells if they were damaged, much quicker than normal cells.

[Marion]

I think it is only in NCS that we are told his DNA has been affected - OCS gives us no clues at all.

[Intensity Angel]

Confirmed. Just watched the first episode of OS again. no mention of DNA.

[Captain Indigo]

Ooh, a fellow biologist (I've just finally completed my second year at uni).

Mitosis of those cells would remain the same and rgenerate, meaning that person within a small space of time would be able to regenerate Schwann cells if they were damaged, much quicker than normal cells.

The main problem with cells like Schwann cells is that they don't undergo mitosis. Loss of Schwann cells is the primary cause of diseases like Multiple Sclerosis.

The lack of mitosis in the cells is why I hesitated when we were talking about transplantation before (in fact, Sage and I continued the conversation by PM, but I can't remember what was said). Harvesting living cells from Scarlet wouldn't do him much harm because he could simply regenerate the lost cells (my thinking here is that he has live neural stem cells), but removing them from a normal person could cause untold damage.

[Captain Indigo]

I've managed to root out my original PM conversation with Sage. This part doesn't give away any of her plot, and it's pertinent to the current conversation.

All I really know at the moment is that they're insulating cells that wrap around the nerves in the peripheral nervous system, which is actually what most people think of as the nervous system, i.e. not the brain or the spinal cord. Brain & SC are the 'central nervous system', and are insulated by oligodendrocytes instead of Schwann cells. You might have heard the term 'myelin sheath' in GCSE, I can't remember whether we did it then or not. It's just the generic term used to describe the layer, can be used for PNS or CNS.
(By the way, I've got a textbook open beside me that has a little bit about them - we didn't do it in that much detail at A level! )

From what I remember, there's talk about using trasplanted Schwann cells in the treatment of MS (which is caused by the breakdown in the myelin sheath), but no one's quite sure about how to get donor cells to re-insulate nerves where the cells have been damaged. Of course, there's no reason why they can't have worked that out by the time your story is set...

The trouble with transplants, as I'm sure you know, is that the immune system of the recipient can attack donated cells if they recognise it as foreign. I don't think that Schwann cells would be any exception to this, sadly.

Of course, even in the three years since this thread was opened, there may have been a breakthrough in transplantation that I'm not aware of and don't have time to research right now.

[chrisbishop]

Very interesting stuff here!

Should we call you DOC Indigo?

[Captain Indigo]

[chrisbishop]

No sense in getting shy!

This is the kind of stuff that makes a conversation very interesting.

You said that removing cells from Scarlet wouldn't do him much harm, but that it could do untold damage to a normal human being. What about a whole organ (in the case of Scarlet, of course)? Would he be able to regrow it eventually?

Let's suppose that the cells or organs would be accepted by the recipient's body... Would the cells regenerate like they did in Scarlet's body and sort of 'take over' this new body? And how far could this go? Would we have a new retrometabolic being (as I suggested in one story)... or suddenly, after a time, end up with a perfect clone of Scarlet, as the retrometabolic cells would have 'corrected' the already existing ones to 'fit' the pattern of the original body they had been created from?

Only extrapolating here - as I got no idea what I'm talking about...

Now it's me who should be red-faced...

[Intensity Angel]

You shouldn't be Chris, you've made some good questions.

Looking over everything (And a hefty 10 page essay I wrote in very small print trying to find an answer!)

With his ability to heal at a faster rate, if Scarlet donated an organ, he'd probably regrow it quickly providing his body realised something was missing and had something to start regenerating off.

But I believe a transplant off Captain Scarlet would be lethal because,

1. His cells would retometabolise, remember organs are groups of tissues that are groups of cells. Mitosis in Captain Scarlet is a lot faster than in normal people like us and so that organ would doing better than a normal body can provide for. It would like putting a new part in an old that is better than the original part that that engine is used to. It might result in the organ becoming a problem in the future.

2. The body might reject the organ anyway. This tends to happy a bit (I don't know any exact figures at the moment so forgive me)

3. That organ might settle and be ready to work when the receiver may not be ready.

4. Some people might object anyway because they see Captain Scarlet as a freak.

5. There is a risk that the donated organ would be parasitic.

I've done some research into cells too. I've reached a conclusion that the only way someone will get retometabolism off Captain Scarlet is if they have a full collection of Scarlet's cells, i.e nerve cells, blood cells, muscles cells etc. One organ or a blood tranfussion I believe isn't enough to give someone full retometabolism.

[MMK]

2. The body might reject the organ anyway. This tends to happy a bit (I don't know any exact figures at the moment so forgive me)

I've found it out:

Acute rejection occurs in 10% to 25% of people after transplant during the first sixty days. Rejection does not necessarily mean loss of the organ, but may require additional treatment.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidney_transplantation)
Take this info 'with a pinch of salt' (since wikipedia info can be altered by almost anybody).
Sorry the statistic isn't in figures and that it only talks about kidney transplants .

Taking a step back from using Scarlet as an organ donor, perhaps something like 'stem cells from skin' will have been 'sorted out' by 2068(ish)?

[Intensity Angel]

Maybe modern medical science has found a way to combat organ rejection, but even still, with Scarlet it would probably be illogical. Not enough is known about his ability and I'm sure he wouldn't enough being a test subject.

Add on: At least the spell checker works at school.