Conservation of energy

by **Cerise** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:52 pm

Basically, this law deals with energy not being able to be created or destroyed. Now assuming that it's true (and not just true in OUR experience) then we assume that retrometabolism must use some substances in the healing process - like it does with the normal healing process. In our experience this, of course must be organic eg food or some direct transfer of energy eg heat.
However, retrometabolism also applies to non-organic substances (buildings etc), so, how can this be achieved? It is interesting to note that in the case of the Martian complex that a direct source of energy was applied to the destroyed buildings whilst on Earth, for much smaller targets, the two green rings are used.
My own personal guess would be that external matter is not being used in these cases as all the energy transfer needed is coming in the form of the green rings etc.
The question remains, however, how does Scarlet do it? Or, indeed, does Scarlet do it, or is it done for him?

by **Marion** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:49 am

If we knew the answer to that, we'd know a lot more than we do now!

.
The rings might have some significence... or might they just be an indication that the Mysterons are at work. I cannot remember anyone actually 'seeing' the rings....

by **Clya Brown** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:48 pm

Energy and mass are interchangeable: E = mc² and all that. All of which amounts to a very small mass can be converted into a hell of a lot of energy (as amply demonstrated at Hiroshima), or – more relevant to this question - one hell of a lot of energy can be converted into a very small mass. Having said that, I don’t think it’s a mass/energy conversion issue at all, but a transdimensional duplication of an entropy state. I don’t know what that means, but that’s what I think it is – and now I’m going to keep out of this one until Doc Denim arrives to explain how it’s done!

As to the rings… no, I don’t think anybody’s actually seen them either, unless they were visible on the video that those two crooks stole from Spectrum’s archives in “The Heart of New York”. I’ll be interested to see how the new CGI series interprets those rings: they’ll obviously do something a lot cleverer than just shining a green torch with a Polo-shaped filter across the set!

[I seem to remember that James Blish had Scotty explaining to Kirk in "Spock Must Die!" that the idea of the transporter being a mass-energy converter was a misnomer; rather that it analysed the energy state of every molecule in the subject, and then produced a Dirac jump to an equivalent state elsewhere, adding in passing that if any actual conversion were involved they'd blow up the ship. Why the transporter apparently has to disintegrate the subject to perform this feat was never explained - maybe for the same reason that the Mysterons also have to kill their target. One school of thought

has recently suggested that such a disintegration might be necessary to prevent a subatomic resonance building up between the virtually identical structures that would otherwise be so created. An alternative explanation might spring from the consequences of performing the scan, since the act of scanning the structure could perhaps itself change the structure at the subatomic level (see 'Wavefunction Collapse' at http://www.fact-index.com/u/un/uncertainty_principle.html]

by **theMysterons** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:13 am

EARTHMEN... YOU BELIEVE YOURSELVES TO BE SO CLEVER... YET AS HARD AS YOU MAY TRY... YOU WILL NEVER DISCOVER THE MYSTERIES OF THE MYSTERONS

by **Marion** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:24 pm

Wanna bet? :wink:

We have the imagination to smoke you guys out!

(Now where did I leave that Mysteron gun?)

by **Doc Denim** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:10 am

(Did I hear my name mentioned?)

Well, yes, seems I've been over this ground once or twice before, but the actual post seems to have evaporated with the first forum. There are some relevant notes posted under Origin of the Mysterons, but I will have to consult my hard copy archives to find the actual once-upon-a-time-post for this one.

As to the green rings - I have (for my own fan-fic purposes) decided that these are the 'placement' scan - with which the Mysterons correctly place their constructs physically and temporally into our 4D space-time. (I figure the 'effect' that Scarlet and Brown were subjected to immediately prior to their being killed in the first episode was the 'template' scan, in which persons or objects are 'blueprinted' for reconstruction purposes. We only see the green rings after the fact (unless I'm missing a scene or two somewhere - can anyone think of an instance where we saw them first?)

That having been said, and after having reviewed the bits of CGI video, I think the green rings are going to be presented quite differently than we've seen in the past - the bit of CGI that I saw seemed to have them being a lot more 'interactive' than in the original series.....

Off to mine the archives.....

Doc Denim

by **Doc Denim** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:24 am

BTW - Hazel - just to comment on your query - I happen to think that Scarlet doesn't Do It Himself, I think the Mysterons Do It For Him. (That was an evaporated post too.....) I'll see what I can find, but as I recall, it goes back to what you think the retrometabolism IS.

If it's truly a physiological 'reset' that returns Scarlet to his 'original' copied state, then why don't his memories revert to the crash that klilled him in the first place? (I think that it is a physiological reset, but with enhanced and updated 'data' provided courtesy of the Mysterons for their fave Construct during the restoration process) More pseudo-details when I dredge 'em up.

ciao!

Doc D

PS - I do get the gist of the phrase, which I've seen in forum posts and in Doppelganger, but just what IS a fifth columnist? (I'm not familiar with the term at all - perhaps it could be added to the lexicon.)

by **Marion** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:40 am

Fifth Columnists, Doc D - Basically these are traitors - those working for the enemy within a country (or organisation in this case), often by infiltrating key positions and seeking to undermine the body politic (or status quo) from within. Its origins are said to come from the Spanish Civil War when a General said he had 4 columns encircling a city and a fifth column working for him in the city. That's according to Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable anyway! :wink:

Hope that helps.... and to quote Douglas Adams.... glad to be of service!

marion

by **Clya Brown** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:03 am

I've just turned up this potted history of the term:

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.p ... e=20010417

Interesting if it isn't generally known on the American side of the Atlantic, but I can easily see why it might not be: the Spanish Civil War in the 1930s was a magnet for idealists throughout Europe, but direct American involvement in European politics only really dated from after the start of WWII. Having said that, I see the article says that the Japanese-Americans who were interned in the US during WWII were referred to as suspected fifth columnists.

Incidentally, I do wonder if the term became popular because it allowed users of it to refer to suspected traitors without needing to prove it. If you accuse someone of being a traitor, you'd have to be able to support the allegation with hard evidence if challenged, but vague talk of "fifth columnists" allows insinuations to be made without substantiation because the term is far less well defined. Just a thought.

by **Steven** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:11 am

Marion and Doc Brown, you given a lot more information about the term the Fifth Column. I am an fan of the old mini series "V" mini series about the alien lizards who were disguised as human, who tried to take over the earth.

The fifth column was used as I gathered as a term for tratiors, thank you for giving more detail on the subject. :wink:

by **chrisbishop** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:00 am

Another "V" fan! Happy to know you, Steven! Give me five! (Or rather, a "V" for Victory!)

This might be slightly off-topic, but I couldn't resist answer this post. I loved the series "V" - or, more precisely, the two miniseries and the subsequent series that put a conclusion to the whole saga (Steven, did you know that this last series has JUST been released on DVDs? The whole last 19 episodes! I just bought them...).

When you were looking at it, "V" had a lot to own to "Captain Scarlet" - Alien invaders taking the image and identities of human beings, hiding their true nature under clever masks, speaking with a strange, echoing voice (!!!!), out to empty Earth of all its resources - therefore destroying it ; a bunch of valorous heroes, alone in knowing what the nature of the enemy really is; and the HUGE MOTHERSHIPS which, in all respect, served the Visitors with the same purpose that CLOUDBASE serves Spectrum (okay, okay... the motherships belong to the bad guys... but the principle is the same!)

On a last note of interest, those who knew of "V" and saw "Idenpendance Day" some odd years later, certainly recognised a similar idea used in the popular TV series: the enormous alien motherships stationing themselves in strategic points, over capital cities all over the planet... waiting for the right moment. In the case of "V", the alien lizards were cleverly deceiving the all-too-gullible humans who were too eager to accept them as 'brothers' - while in "ID4", the alien parasite didn't hesitate to strike the first blow... and it was the same kind of all-too-gullible humans happy to welcome them who were the first to die in a fiery inferno.

While in Scarlet - well... Humans were the first to strike...

With the same result that aliens are STILL in war with them...

What is it exactly that our neibhours don't like about us? Do we have bad breath or what?! ;-$

Duh!

by **Steven** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:10 pm

This is slightly off topic. I am pleased to meet another "V" fan.

I never saw it that way that "V" owned a lot to Captain Scarlet.

I did not know the tv series had been introduced on dvd, I think the "V" went downhill after the mini series. "V" the final battle was good in parts, but alot of it was quite bad at times.

Truthfully I do not remember much about the tv series, accept the alien started talking normally, with out the echoy voices and the Starchild who morphed into a adult.

ps I have got the "V" the Mini Series and the Final Battle on DVD.