Can Captain Scarlet die of natural causes?

[chrisbishop]

You didn't 'freak me out' that much, Flic, don't worry . I'm not THAT squeamish - well, not for fanfic character anyway...

Regarding Scarlet being twinned - whatever the way it might happen - and maybe the Mysterons can always kill him, rather in a mundane way, and try to create a new double of him yet again? From a personal point of view, I kind of thing it cannot happen without the Mysterons encountering major trouble. If Scarlet is a copy of the original - albeit a perfect copy - then they would make a copy of a copy. Anyone who had ever used a photocopier know that each time to make a copy from a copy, and then use that last copy to make yet another copy, the latest result always comes up degraded from the previous... There's little resemblance to the original copy at this point.

In addition to that, the Scarlet we know IS ALREADY different from the original - even if he shares the same memories, intellect and feelings. For one thing, he IS retrometabolic. And I'm sorry do disagree with Doc Denim, but I do think that his retrometabolism comes from him - as an extension of his own healing capacities - healing capacities that all living creature possesses at different degres.

So, what would a new mysteronised copy of our Captain Scarlet be like? I tried to give an answer to that in Dead Man's Gambit - where the Mysterons encountered problem when trying to copy him yet again. They ended up with a failed experience. Furthermore, the still-alive Scarlet was able to pick up the Mysterons's attempt to contact their new creation, because of his own in-built Mysteron-induced capacities. After all, the 'copy' event being incomplete and a failed one, was - 'him', so to speak.

This is but one interpretation, of course. And perhaps each time that the Mysterons would attempt to make a copy of Scarlet would give different results. Who knows with a 'power which is beyond our comprehension'? That said, I think that the Mysterons might consider that while Mysteronising Scarlet might be quite appealing to them, they have to be aware that they couldn't do that without unwanted and impredictable risks. So they would be VERY cautious. They certainly do not want those kinds of risks during a 'mission' - after all, they're kind of 'control-freak' and always chose their would-be agents very carefully, in view of what they need for their new thread.

A flawed copy would probably not do. Especially if it should turn against them. Once again.

[Marion]

I can't compete on the science, but I would like to say one thing.
I think the image of a Captain Scarlet re-created from a template filed away in a Mysteron filing cabinet - detracts from the essential humanity of the man and removes - almost completely - any empathy you might feel for a fellow human being in such a terrible situation.
I believe Scarlet is basically a normal human being - with enhanced senses, strength and natural healing ability. He might be affected by other Mysterons because his enhanced senses detect the power (whatever that is) that the Mysterons use to regenerate and control their agents. But he has broken away from them - he is independent and - as far as a man with his abilities can be - he is human.
Otherwise, the Andersons might as well as stayed with their original idea of a robotic cyborg, controlled by powerful computers from Cloudbase.
Scarlet is an old -fashioned hero, whose 'unique abilities' are as much a curse as a blessing. He uses them to protect his friends and save lives. He suffers pain and torment (especially in our fanfics!). He needs his friends' support and (once again in the fanfics) he has emotional needs and he's in love....
I prefer to think that happens because he's human, not because the Mysterons permit it to happen.

[Mary]

I can't compete on the science, but I would like to say one thing.
I think the image of a Captain Scarlet re-created from a template filed away in a Mysteron filing cabinet - detracts from the essential humanity of the man and removes - almost completely - any empathy you might feel for a fellow human being in such a terrible situation.
I believe Scarlet is basically a normal human being - with enhanced senses, strength and natural healing ability. He might be affected by other Mysterons because his enhanced senses detect the power (whatever that is) that the Mysterons use to regenerate and control their agents. But he has broken away from them - he is independent and - as far as a man with his abilities can be - he is human.
Otherwise, the Andersons might as well as stayed with their original idea of a robotic cyborg, controlled by powerful computers from Cloudbase.
Scarlet is an old -fashioned hero, whose 'unique abilities' are as much a curse as a blessing. He uses them to protect his friends and save lives. He suffers pain and torment (especially in our fanfics!). He needs his friends' support and (once again in the fanfics) he has emotional needs and he's in love....
I prefer to think that happens because he's human, not because the Mysterons permit it to happen.

Good points all, Marion. I kept all of this in mind when writing "Chance for a Lifetime,"which I'm aware several of you use as a "bible" for the Scarlet fanfic universe... And I've made it a point to keep it in mind for all my other stories.

In "Winged Assassin," the second episode (i.e. canon), we know that Scarlet has retained his memory, as he recalls the events prior to the car accident that killed his original self and Captain Brown. Therefore, he must have retained his human memories intact. Since emotions and memories are interconnected, it's only logical to assume that he still has the emotions he had prior to the accident. Which is why I've tried to expand on those memories and emotions as much as possible.

It's often been said that Scarlet is an emotionless character. Many seem to think it's because he's a Mysteron clone; I tend to disagree. I think his military training is a big part of that. He simply turns off his emotions (as much as any normal human being can, of course) when faced with a strategic or tactical scenario, and has normal everyday emotions when off-duty. A lot of military people ARE like this, in fact. In the case of Scarlet, it has also been mentioned in the annuals.

Cheers! (thanks for the emoticon, Chris!)
Mary
(CAPTAIN RUDDY)

[Doc Denim]

Hey all and Marion especially!

Well, this is very, very interesting –because I happen to agree 100% with many of your points above (so we’re not necessarily in disagreement) but I simply Do Not see how this particular ‘method’ by which Scarlet retains his Mysteronized abilities could or should have any detrimental bearing whatsoever on his ‘status’ as a hero. (We may never come to agreement on ‘what’ precisely his retrometabolism IS – our ‘mechanisms are quite different - but it’s a very critical point.)(Apples and oranges, again…)

(To reiterate, everyone is always free to disagree with me - for again, I am no one that needs to be listened to! I love to debate these things! Thank you much, BTW, for not knocking the science, as I didn’t make that stuff up myself at all…though I will admit to bending to my own nefarious ends.)

However - I also happen to believe that Scarlet is human – an absolutely Exact and Identical Paul Metcalfe is precisely what the Mysterons have restored – he’s NOT under their control – he’s free-running in a ‘hands-off’ status as far as the Mysterons are concerned. Yes, I think they are in a passive contact with Scarlet at all times (for reasons already outlined elsewhere in the forum and which I will not reprise here) but they are not his ‘masters’. They do not either Permit or Not Permit things that happen to Scarlet – they merely observe the things that do. (Any Rhapsody of mine would be nervous about that – just as well they all don’t know.) And - if anyone recalls this previously evaporated hypothesis of mine - if such Mysteron influence were to be removed, then Scarlet would just revert to being a truly normal human being again – he wouldn’t drop dead for the lack of contact – in fact, he would very likely be unaware that his ‘abilities’ had deserted him and I’d have to hope he wouldn’t have find that out the hard way – could be one hell of a cliffhanger of a plot/thought though.

So, I have said this before and I will repeat myself for clarity: to make everyone who thinks this (obviously highly unpopular theory) somehow compromises Scarlet’s role as a Hero feel a bit better about it, please rest assured that he is totally unaware of his status, and that the Mysterons don’t often take advantage of the fact that he could serve as a fly on the wall for them. He is The Key, their ultimate resolution to the War of Nerves, because, absolutely - make no mistake about this - he is now one of them, and the Mysterons have a hidden agenda which very much involves Captain Scarlet, but in no way diminishes his courage, integrity or loyalties to Spectrum, his friends or to humankind in general. The point is, he thinks he's still one of us.....and will continue to do so for quite some time yet. (When he finds out otherwise he bucks it for all he’s worth too. As another (I think relevant) aside, Hazel has already second guessed me on this in SIQ – And Scarlet does indeed have the abililty to tap and use his ‘Mysteron’ powers – one day he’ll have to – he just has to come to accept it first…but of course he’s a stubborn beggar, you know.)(Spoiler point – he Doesn’t belong to the Mysteron’s Defense facet.)

As for leaving him as little more than a cyborg – oh, heavens no! This is a door wide open for all sorts of moral dilemma, angst and plot convolutions galore! Because I also happen to agree completely that he still needs his friends – more than ever – as he does suffer in a very real sense from this ‘gift’ he has – physically and emotionally. No argument at all on that point! Lots (!) of this to come in already plotted fan-fic.

And so (last point today, I promise): as far as empathy/sympathy for the characters goes – and here I have to ask everyone in general: do we have none for the Mysterons themselves??? Who were the original injured and offended party in the entire sorry business, and who are, despite their ‘powers beyond our comprehension’ nevertheless conducting the War of Nerves in a civilized and restrained manner? (Yes, I’m willing to debate that point again.) I very much tend to see the Mysterons as unwilling victims locked into the situation (as much as we the Earth-folk are) rather than as heinous and evil villains – as a machine intelligence, they’re not good, they’re not bad, they’re just programmed that way – and fortunately for us, done so by peaceful beings with a distaste for killing other beings off permanently, hence the infamous filing cabinet – I don't really want all of those people dead forever…

All for now……

Siobhan a.k.a. Doc Denim

[Marion]

I don't think we will ever agree on this, Doc, but it is good to debate!
Why does no-one have sympathy for the Mysterons? - Well, it might be that they have threatened the destruction of all life on Earth - and however 'civilzed and restrained' they are about conducting their war of nerves - they are still conducting it and they have not changed their objective. Personally, I wouldn't have much sympathy for anyone - or anything - that did that.
If they are programmed machines, they are not to 'blame', but that does not make them sympathetic - and yes, we were the 'aggresors' in as far as Black made a very human error - but rational beings - even justifiably very angry ones - can usually distinguish between one man's mistakes and the evil/hostile intent of 'all life' on a planet.
Maybe, it is that feeling that the Mysterons are not 'nice' - that makes me buck so much against the idea that they have any sort of control over Scarlet. And the fact that - if they do have control - making him suffer so (and deliberatly targeting him) for their 'interest and observation' is downright sadistic. (And yes, I know that fanfic authors do it too - but most of us do it to highlight his bravery/the pathos of his situation/ and the loyalty of the man.)His being unaware of the situation, that he is part of their 'hidden agenda' , does not - as you say - detract from his bravery etc. - but the fact that we know he is - does , at least for me. I prefer to think of a man who - by a combination of circumstances and a strong will - broke free of an alien control and is now determined that they shall never make any others suffer so, or achieve their ultimate, stated objective.
In the meantime - let the games commence! - and may the best man win - because we can agree on this, at least,- that man would be Captain Scarlet!

[MMK]

)Following on from the question of whether Captain Scarlet would die of natural causes - is the question of just exactly what is repaired by his retrometabolism?

For example - the young Paul Metcalfe may have had his tonsils removed - its not unknown - so when Captain Scarlet fell from the Car-Vu and recovered on Cloudbase did he discover that he had his tonsils once more?
I suppose it depends on what you believe retrometabolism to be - does it create a perfect human being every time or only return a body to the condition it was in before the injury?

All I can say about this is:
I wouldn't want to be Scarlet if this is the case as I have had a lot of trouble with MY tonsils... and yes (for everybodys reference) I have had mine out... and I wouldn't want to wake up after the operation to find that my retrometabolism 'kicked in' and 'regenerated' them

[Captain Indigo]

Ah, but with the retrometabolism comes immunity to infection - no infections = no tonsilitis = no need to have them removed (again) .

[Intensity Angel]

In new NCS, when Scarlet is being interrogated, Dr gold reels off a list of things that make him the same as he was before Mysteronization. There was something referring to his health. Can't remember what through.

The point of my post is that I believe that (Now talking OS) Captain Scarlet's Retometabolism will fade out when he's get older. But I think that there might be a glinch. What if his Retometabolism turned against him and caused him to age extremely quickly in a short period of time?

[MMK]

In new NCS, when Scarlet is being interrogated, Dr gold reels off a list of things that make him the same as he was before Mysteronization. There was something referring to his health. Can't remember what through.

Was it the break in his leg (from years before)? (or did Gold mention something like 'rivets' in Scarlet's leg from when he broke his leg... )

The point of my post is that I believe that (Now talking OS) Captain Scarlet's Retometabolism will fade out when he's get older. But I think that there might be a glinch. What if his Retometabolism turned against him and caused him to age extremely quickly in a short period of time?

I wouldn't want to be Scarlet if/when it did happen.
Someone wrote a fic about Scarlet when that happened, *to self:* now what was the title?.... .... can't think of what it's called, I'm sure someone else will come up with the title... (or me, once I find my brain. )

[Marion]

Sue Stanhope.

http://www.spectrum-headquarters.com/fanfic/end_of_everything.htm
Sue is the mistress of the macabre short story.

[MMK]

Sue Stanhope.

http://www.spectrum-headquarters.com/fanfic/end_of_everything.htm
Sue is the mistress of the macabre short story.

Thank you, Marion!
Now that you've helped find the title for me, want to help find that AWOL brain of mine too?

[Intensity Angel]

MMK you are right, it was rivets in Scarlet's leg. But look at it from Scarlet's view, he'd want to get old and be able to retire and have his gran kids running around his feet.

That's what I've wrote about in my fan fic "Like Toy Soldiers,".
Sorry if I just broke the rules.